I haven't really done any major signs to speak of, however, with trying to utilize my digital cameral a little more, I'm going to take the steps to change that.

I'm looking to take pics of existing buildings and/or signs and provide a sign layout over the picture to submit to prospects. Being I've never really done anything like this, I was concerned with sign code issues. If there is an existing sign at a location, can you replace it without any hassles? Or do you need to check for new ordinances and so forth? I'm speaking mainly of flat, non-electrical signs installed against the building or wall.

I guess when it comes to sign codes, I'm a little lost at where to start.

Can anyone point me as to where I can get more info? Should I go to the city, county, state, or town? Or all of them?

Where do ya wanna eat???

(hee, hee...)

Sucking up to him would be like selling your soul to the devil himself.I'd rather beat him at his own game than bribe him to give my customer what they rightly have coming...besides I already pay his wages...thats quite enuff I think.

As the old saying goes...."Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

Here's what it does for me......

1) I get inside info about what is going on with the city planning department and anticipate future changes in the code. A few years ago, the "new" City Manager was planning to increase the permit fees for signs by 400 to 800%. We are talking about a $100 permit fee for banners and a $250 fee as a minimum for "anything" else. Imagine what that would do to your business. The only public announcement about the proposed increase was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall (and how many of us go there). I was able to get some of my regular clients and another sign shop to join me in fighting the increase. We won. We even got a big write up about it in the newspaper (free advertising).

2) If I need to install a sign in another town, my local inspector helps me find the right person (i.e. - one who isn't such a stickler).

3) Lets me know who's moving into town even before the Chamber does. This gets me the inside track to market my services.

There's more, but you get the idea. Instead of making your local inspector your enemy for doing his job, use him to your advantage.

*************

Just wanted to add this to my list......guess who my inspector sends his friends and contacts to for their signage needs now.

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]

This is what staying "close to the enemy" has done for me.

I spent nearly two years on a blue ribbon committee to rewrite the sign codes.

When I was through and the new codes were implimented it took nearly two years for me to get a sign premit with out initial rejection of the first draft sometimes two and three attempts.

It has settled back down now but I will NEVER get close to them again, In fact we are so serious about it that when the new building is completed (someday soon we hope...damned city...don't get me started)we will moving in a different direction...limited or no permitting more vehicle graphics and cash and carry signs. "We'll make
them any size ya want, you worry about the permit".

Oh did I mention the city didn't include sign companies or representives of the trade on their blue ribbon committee...I had to petion them to even be allowed to set on that committee and the thanks I got was a firm kick in the teeth.

With all that having been said they are now looking at changing the codes again (twice in 8 years) when asked if I would go again, the answer was not only "no" it was "HELL NO"

Let them bird brains change the code...I don't care anymore...every time they change it, I make more money, Gee I never thought I would have to say this but here goes. "I love our sign code people" BUT I STILL AINT FEEDING THEM!

All this and I still remain a positive person...don't you think?

[ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]

They actually decided we now have to have an Engineers stamp on our drawing to be able to submit it.(Thats an extra $150. minimum)not to mention the hassle and run around time and not to mention the fact an engineer doesn't want to be bothered for such "trivial nonsense"(quote from a local engineer). Now there are those who would say "soooo...just charge the customer and move on"

Thats why we're in this mess to start with!

Once I proved to them there was no legitimate reason for the engineers stamp they backed off.
(for how long? who knows?)

Anyway here's what I would suggest Rick...(Signs not over 10 feet tall with wooden structures and foundations under 36" and not exceeding 32 square feet...should be exempt).

Sounds good to me...and thats what the concession was here...although now they will allow a structure up to 96 sq ft without stamp. However if a sign is in a parking lot or where it might hurt someone if it blows over (as opposed to being in a field somewhere) the stamping may still be requierd.(Their call!)

With our very simple code it says that any sign 32 Sq. Ft. and over or "any sign and/or structure the top of which is at a height of ten (10) feet or more on which a sign face is located" must have advance approval of the plan commission.

What this means is that these guys can "interpret" your building as a structure. If you want to put your 3' x 4' sign no less than 7 feet high on the side of your building you may very well be screwed... and I don't mean the sign screwed to the side of the building.

When I moved my shop to this town I thought it would be a good idea if I went to the planning and city council meetings to get an idea of who plays nice. It only takes a couple of people with a bad attitude or some other pre-conceived notion (a notion that is never shared with others) to mess up the whole situation. I keep going, I try to be as diplomatic as I can be about getting things changed and come away many times wondering why or if I am wasting my time and breath.

Well, here's the good part. This spring it's election time and I am cranking out campaign signs and labels for (I hope) our next mayor. I have sided with the business community here and decided that I'll spend less time (for now) on doing anything for the city. The way it works here is that the city DOES NOT hire local contractors for anything. We are building a multi-million dollar new school plus additions and rennovations without any local contractors.

I make more money from the local contractors than I do from the city so you see where my loyalty goes here. On the other hand, I feel things will change soon and I'll feel less frustrated. If you can approach these people with a well thought out and professional opinion... and let your neighbors in town as well as the business community know your thoughts, the city will feel a little pressure and begin to look into making appropriate changes.

SOME cities will change over the years and will require amendments or revisions to the code. There are any number of advertising ideas that have not even been thought of yet and these will have to be addressed as well.

Most of my business does not rely on permitted types of signs in this city... less than 12% for 2001. Everything else is striping, truck lettering and signs that go out of the city or out of the state. I do feel that as a professional I have some, SOME responsibility to keep up on the sign code situation so I can at least have an intelligent discussion with clients that want to know what they need. I can send them over to fight with city hall or I can go with them. So far, I go with them because seeing these guys squirm is better than anything on TV.