Roland Color Camm??? What gives? is this thing everything they say? I can't afford an edge, and don't know if I want to bite for the colorcamm.....but is it worth the money?

Is it a quality print? Exterior Durability?

Are there other digital print options that are better/comparable? I want it to print and contour cut.....

Thanks for the help!

I would love to have a 4-head embroidery machine, but my embroidery sales are not up far enough yet. I'll take a lower profit margin for zero work level. When they reach a level where they can support the machinery, I will take the plunge.

You'll blow through alot of inks and supplies at first figuring out all the nuances that go along with printing.

Roland has the lowest initial or start-up costs but the thermal inks are a bit on the pricey side.

Edge has a high startup cost but the resin ribbons I have seen in catalogs seem to run $1 per running foot which is equivalent to the HP vinyl costs.

If price is the main issue driving your decision, why not just farm printing work out instead of making the investment?

It is just so cumbersome to market someone elses work. It seems like it would be difficult to really pitch the service without a firsthand knowledge of the capabilities of it.

I mean how would you go about marketing it? I know for a fact that I have clients that would purchase from me much easier if I could show them "hands on" what this could do.

What about leasing? At 163 bucks a month for the PC-60 it seems like a fairly risk free limited commitment.....

But then if I knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't be fishing around here, would i?

I'd have to agree with Bob. If you want a low cost-of-entry in a device that prints and cuts an outdoor durable image, Roland is the only game in town.

But, with Roland, the only thing that's low-cost is the point of entry. From there your cost will be many times that of folks with an EDGE, DuraChrome or other pricier pieces of equipment.

For the most part, Roland output is about $8 / Ft^2 ... on a good day, compared to an EDGE or DuraChrome, with output cost of $3 / Ft^2 ... on a bad day.

If you do one 3 x 5 sign per day, times 22 working days in a month, your Roland supply tab at month's end will be in the range of $2640. The same output on an EDGE or DuraChrome will be around $990. A $1600 savings each and every month.

Of course the argument against is that entry level folks aren't using their printer every day. Or maybe they're selling smaller signs. Okay, let's say a 2 x 3 every other day (6 Ft^2, 11 times per month). Your Roland supply tab will be closer to $528 / month. Assume further that your business never grows ... extending futher the value (percieved) of an entry level device. In three years you'll spend $6,000 on equipment and $19,000 on supplies. $25,000 total.

An EDGE 1 with a cutter and software is about $17,000. But the supplies will only come to around $7,125 thereabouts. $24,125 total.

DuraChrome (and the newer Summa DC2) isn't competitive for volume that low ... so I won't even try.

Wholesale on that volume can be found for around $10 / Ft^2, or $23,750 over 3 years.

If your volume is less, the argument for wholesale only gets greater. If you do more volume, the EDGE argument gets better (or even more volume, or wide jobs, CALL ME! I'd love to sell you a Summa DC2). However, I honestly can't think of a point at which a ColorCAMM makes good economic sense ... much less that it isn't even close to the capabilities of an EDGE or DuraChrome.

In short, I believe the best entry-level solution is, and always has been, to outsource until your volume forces you to consider your own equipment (which in the meantime will only get better and less expensive). Naturally, I'd love it if you bought output from a DuraChrome user. While they're spending WAY less on supplies, at least they're spending it with me

My slightly biased $.02,

Jon Peterman just got the deal of the century by buying a practically brand new hardly used at all Roland PC 60 color camm for $1000. which included a new techno-something heat press and a hat thingie too. It is said that he has approximently 10 grand just in just that equipment, a score wouldn't you think.
But thats not all, a year and a half ago Jon won a brand new Summa plotter in some kind of drawing on the net.

As someone who as owned both the ColorCamm and the Edge I can tell you this from personal experience.....buy the Edge.

BUT (there is always a "but")

Like Rob said, build the market first. I also agree with Jim 100%.

Do not buy a machine, any machine, thinking that it will bring you business. It won't (and I'm an expert at that). Instead, find a wholesaler you know and trust. Have them to teach you what you need to know. A good place to start is learning Corel Draw thoroughly. You can then send files via e-mail to the wholesaler and he will be able to convert the file more easily. Create some sample files and have him to produce them for you. These will be your sales samples.

There is a huge learning curve where digital printing is involved. Be patient. Get all the information you can get your hands on and soak all of it in. You will need to grasp the concepts of not just DPI, but PPI, LPI, traps, bleeds, overprints and so on. I've been at this since 1998 and I'm still learning more all of the time.

Meanwhile, as you investigate and learn more about what it will take to meet your needs, check out www.4edgetalk.com and www.colorcut.com. I don't know if Summa has a owner-based BB out there, but if there is, then you should check it out too. You will learn more about the pro's and con's of the respective equipment by the comments made there. Also, if you have the July/August 1998 issue of SignCraft, turn to page 72. I wrote an article about purchasing digital equipment. You may find it useful.

If you want, I've also written a couple posts that do a side-by-side comparison of the ColorCamm and the Edge. At your request, I'll e-mail it to you.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]

Thanks for mentioning us. I'm not aware of any independent BB's devoted to our products. But we do have an open forum for our clients, or anyone else: http://www.summadirect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

Admittedly, it's owned and moderated by Summa. However, we do not, won't ever, censor any posts ... with exception of lude/objectionable content (hasn't been any yet). Users can edit or whack their own posts. But we won't change anything, even if it's uncomplimentary.

One advantage in being sponsored by us is that our tech support folks moderate the forums (and get e-mail notifications when new messages are posted). So questions are usually answered pretty quickly ... and hopefully, accurately as well.

Thanks again,