i posted asking people's opinions on a job that came my way in september. no deposit, payment 25th of October....most of you said no. but, i took the chance.
the job was $1800 faux finish and $100 to airbrush his dog on his denim jacket. $1900 total.
so, it's November 3rd. and here i sit.
his foreman came over with a cheque last friday for only $1000 (2 days after the deadline). i didn't give him the jacket.
on monday, i called the guy and asked when he was planning to get me the other $900. he said thursday or friday. well, it's friday and i haven't heard from him.
he did tell me i was petty keeping his jacket though (like i care)...
so, basically, i have called him many times, faxed him to remind him of our agreement and i do not have the money.
i shelled out a fair bit for materials. i hired someone to help me, cuz there was quite a bit extra to do from the original estimate. i'm out of pocket and chasing after this guy.
i told him day one that i couldn't really afford this and everything had to be paid on time.
then a worst case scenario happened for me, so....i told him when my father died (sept) that i spent everything i had to go to his funeral and i had to make sure he was going to pay in full on the 25th. he said yes.
i get a song and dance each time, then a promise to pay that hasn't happened. maybe today will be my lucky day
SO, REMEMBER....DO NOT DO ANY WORK WITHOUT A DOWN PAYMENT!!!!!!!!!!!
i know we all say it again and again. then someone comes along and you judge whether you can trust that individual....forget it. don't trust anyone.....GET A DEPOSIT.
so, there you go. another lesson to me and hopefully everyone else.
------------------ free to paint, day and night :) Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
posted
Tell the guy you're taking half the paint job back. Give him a choice. Paint or Pay. Carry a labeled squirt bottle of laquer thinner. Jeeezzz Gail. I'm sorry. I hate those shiesters too! They suck!
------------------ Robert "Bobby" Salyers Airbrush & Graphics Studio Clearwater, FL airbrushnow@email.msn.com
He put in your heart certain wishes and plans, in my heart he put other and different desires. Each man is good in his sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows.---Sitting Bull
Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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We abducted a sign last summer. Showed up in the van, uninstalled it and then took it. The guy was upset. Then he calls and says the cheque will be at the front desk in the am. We call in the am and the clerk says Nope no cheque here. We wait. He calls us in the afternoon and says the cheque is there. We go down and it is not and as we are leaving out he runs with a cheque.
posted
Well, I'm glad to say I have never been taken & never will be, Most of my jobs are paid in full in advance, if their a repeat customer I'll accept 50% in advance & I do not give them the finished product or install it until paid in full & if they give me a check I go to their bank & cash it before I install it or give them the sign (NO EXCEPTIONS) Never think you can trust people you don't know hell how many do you know personally you can trust? I trust no one when it comes to my money. If they can't afford to pay me in advance, no sign, no exception. I hope this will be your last time of trusting customers. I know some will say they have to trust some people but they have also been in your shoes, of not getting paid, I have never had this problem, so I'll stick to getting my money up front it's worked for 15 years & it will work for you.
posted
i don't have many retaliation tactics up my sleeve.
the faux finish is in a bar. the bar is open again and doing business.
i was subcontracted by the painting company. there's huge renovations going on in this hotel.
this hotel is in my neck of the woods. the painting contractor is not. he's a couple hours away from the site.
the only one who'd look bad would be me, i'm sure. though, if he doesn't cough up soon, i may tell the main contractor, the hotel, the interior designers or whoever.
this guy really wants work in whistler (ski resort) and this is his first big contract there (BIG contract)...
can i make him look like a jerk in that community? i don't know, but, if i need to, you guys will be the ones i am asking for creative ideas....
it's hard to get 100% up front. i don't want to commit to an exact price alot of the time on these jobs, because there's always some surprises, problems, additions or ?
i will get my money eventually and in the meantime, i did a great job in my community. hopefully, future work (with other companies!) will come my way through this.
it is frustrating though. i turned down other deadline oriented work because i already had committed to this.
i'm always willing to do things til i get screwed. now, i've been screwed. so no more jobs without the deposit. i'll go back to delivering pizza if i have to.
i've definitely become much more bullheaded on my needs lately. i've had a crappy couple of months personally and too many headaches from clients.
i've changed my estimate sheets. in big letters it says...NO WORK WITHOUT A DEPOSIT.
i like to think my father (who didn't take any bull)is watching over me these days since he passed away in september. it's been amazing how much more committed i am to standing up for myself. i've been giving much higher quotes. i'm starting to tell people how it's going to be.
i leaned toward asking people how they would like it to be before. i've worked out deals with people. payment plans, them contributing paint to save themselves money, that kind of thing.
i've never had a problem (lost $100 once, that was it) until now. so, it's a whole new ballgame.
high prices, high quality material, deposit, etc, etc.
------------------ free to paint, day and night :) Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
posted
Bummer Gail Been there, done that....... I understood the delima you had then, and we will all take that chance sometimes. It depends on how much you need that job.Well....sorry bout it anyway.
There was a great artical yrs ago in Signcraft....all about getting that deposit...after yrs of getting ripped off the author said he has a stack of unpaid-for abandoned signs standing in the corner of his shop, when a customer baulks at paying a deposit, he points to the stack and tells them they may choose from the pile over there, those don't require a deposit! -------------- Adrienne
------------------ Adrienne Morgan Splash Signs www.splashsigns.com "Rainkatt' on mirc chat
A PROUD sponsor of this amazing site...U can B 2!! www.letterheads.com/supporters "If it wasn't for signs, you wouldn't know where you were!!"
42 ALta Loma Benicia, CA 94510 707-746-7847 (shop) 707-550-4553 (voicemail) adrienne@splashsigns.com
Posts: 4868 | From: Port Angeles, Washington, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Gailforce, Try calling his house & when his wife answers hang up after about a week ask for him in your most sexy voice when she ask who this is hang up.And with a few more creative ideas he'll get whats coming to him.Maybe send him a card & flowers & thank him for a great night make sure you arrange to know when he isn't at home for that night.LOL Well you get the idea !
posted
Hey Gail, Sorry about your mess. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. you can file a LIEN against the property owner. Then he has to pay. I wouldn't do it yet, but if you don't get your money, do it!
------------------ Robert Thomas Creative Signs In Beautiful Naples, Fl.
Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
i'm pretty sure i'll get my money. but, i just wanted this message reinforced to myself and everyone else.
by and large, you guys said don't do it. i did it and now i have to wait for my money.
that wouldn't be the biggest deal, but, i had a one of a kind bad spell and came up short. and, i'm pretty disappointed with this guy particularly because i've so clearly said, i'm in a jam, please make sure you pay me when we agreed or before and he said yes.
it's been one story after another. 1st. he didn't get my faxed invoice(he tells me 2 weeks later)
2nd. i'm with his foreman at the site after the job is finished and while he's talking to the boss on his cell phone, i ask him to ask when my cheque will be ready. the foreman asks, then says the cheque will be ready when he gets the invoice (see 1)
3rd. after i receive the $1000 i fax him a letter and restate our original agreement and the fact that the bar has been approved by the designer and is open for business.
4th. on monday, he says, i told you that i would have the rest of the money this week. i'll be out thursday or friday....and now it's friday night and of course, i've heard hide nor hair of him.
plus a few other conversations where he's been slick with non-specific dates. he keeps telling me what a big company he has and how many companies he deals with every day and yadayada...
i know he's just stalling to keep money in his pocket for as long as possible. like he doesn't have $900 until they pay him. they're contracted to paint a huge 5 story hotel with restaurants and stores and everything for god's sake.
AND, he said i was petty (yes, petty) cause i didn't give the foreman his jacket when he brought me the cheque.
i'm starting to move over in to the 49% bitch side of my personality
------------------ free to paint, day and night Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
[This message has been edited by Gailforce (edited November 03, 2000).]
posted
I used to have some trouble asking for a deposit sometimes, until I had to special order an expensive radiator for my old car and the radiator man wanted a deposit before he would order it. He said "Hey, I make MY MOTHER give me a deposit." I use that all the time, now. I think the humorous edge, slight as it is, takes some of the bite out of it, besides if you sound like everybody has to play this game with you maybe the customer won't feel singled out like you don't trust them. Sometimes I come right out and say "Because I don't trust you." They'll shrug that one off, like "OF COURSE you can trust me, why here's some front money right now."
Works for me.
------------------ "If it isn't fun, why do it?" Signmike@aol.com Mike Languein Doctor of Letters BS, MS, PhD ___________________
You know what BS is, MS is More of the Same, and it's Piled Higher and Deeper here
I had a $2000 job that I got a deposit on, did the work, then had to chase the other half down a little bit.
I only had to chase 'em for about a week, but it still feels like you just never will get that last payment. Fortunately, my case didnt involve any slick excuses or anything, it was just a matter of conflicting schedules and trying to arrange a convenient meeting time... and dealing with 4 or 5 different people.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
My work is all referral right now, so I never have a problem getting $paid. They know it will get around back to the person from which the referral came.
Here are a few tactics I have used: Take a friend with you. I take my fiance' with me. She has a 90% average going with men, because they don't want to be embarrased by not paying in front of her.
Always visit on payday. There's something psycho - logocal (HA!) about paying their employees and bills on fri., and the conection can work for you. Other people in thier office will also know whats up...something they will want to avoid.
Now for a little bluffing: Mention that you have a customer who needs the service they provide, and it's BIG! REALLY BIG! This gets a greedy bastards blood flowing and his pen moving across a check. After your paid, give him the number to 1-800-kiss-my-ass.
If nothing else works, I send those idiots to false locations for bidding purposes to non-exsistent locations until I feel like I've recouped my $$ with their wasted time.
Good Luck.
------------------
Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Dear Gail, A wanna-be-sign-painter aked me to help him finish a job that he started and couldn't finish. It wasn't as big as yours but the end results were the same. After calling him only twice to pay me, he packed up and left town reinforcing his own petty shallowness. You have gone far enough out your way to make it happen so get some legal advice and try to talk some sense into him through your lawyer. I realize that this can be a very stressful move on your part but it could also be a step in the direction of vindication and rightfully so. Nobody I know needs this kind of added weight. I have only one company policy and one company guarantee: POLICY REQUIRES A MINIMUM OF 50%. I GUARANTEE THAT IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY SIGN, I'LL NEVER DO ANOTHER ONE FOR YOU!LOL There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and what has been will be again. Daniel R. Perez Daniez Dzines Fresno, CA daniez2001@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by Daniez (edited November 06, 2000).]
Posts: 299 | From: Fresno, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Gail, In Texas you could file a lein against the Property.Don't know in your case, but sounds like a little visit to a lawyer might enlighten you. Bill Sorry for your trouble, My Dad always said, first time some one does me wrong, shame on them, Second time, Shame on me! it's been a good rule for me, I just try to keep down on the first times LOL
------------------ Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud second year Supporter of the Letterheads Website MailTo:twobeesusa@netscape.net
Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
don't y'all impart fascinating tidbits of information....i like the fake "potential work" for him bit...and, of course court, and all the other "diplomtic" means of dealing.
but, i have another thing hitting me. why does this happen now? i am digesting a lesson. i have almost got it broken down and figured out. life is just so freakin' fascinating.
you know, i almost took on another 0% down job....and, all of a sudden, i had to give my head a shake. deposit up front, all the way....
sometimes i learn things and, by process or by experience, all of a sudden i know, i'm verging on a big upsweep of creation or business perception.
in only the last decade or so, have i been concsious of patterns and training yourself. boy, am i in one of those "now" moments (wish i knew how to do the bug eyes) ...i've zoned in on a personal fault (trying to work win/win deals) and now seems to be the time i'm supposed to work it out.
"i sure hope that makes sense"
------------------ free to paint, day and night Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
[This message has been edited by Gailforce (edited November 06, 2000).]
posted
you know, it's not "specifically" a shyness, but, more, trying to accomodate...
the stories you get....this is the way it's done....can i pay you on the 25th?....etc. etc...
and, it's not a big problem. but, all of a sudden a couple worst case scenarios in my life collided.
so, i'm realizing...one day jobs can be cod...all others deposit up front. i can always find something else to do when a job doesn't work out cuz i can't accomodate their needs.
even if i have a free day and paint my own walls, it's probably still a better bet.
but, yeah, put up or shut up....there's good customer relations for you
------------------ free to paint, day and night :) Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
posted
I had the same thing happen a couple of years ago (twice). Did tons of FREE art work too. It's so annoying. The one guy (who worked for my Dad years ago) waited a year to finally pay me. I just found out his place went up for auction sale and I was lucky I got my money. I went in and he was so rude to me then my husband went in and got a check. Things that make you go Hum!! Hopefully I'll get the new owners business.
It's not much but I believe the cream does come to the top!!
I just created a terms/schedule sheet that lists our proceedures in black and white. From first contact to end delivery/install. I am giving this to all customers at our first meeting. I'm practicing my new speach as well. They get a free consultation then a line sketch - black and white. After that a deposit is required before any further work. I feel we're at a make or break it point and I can't be running around with my head hanging and not getting paid!! I have no life anymore - my mt. bike is really pissed at me. It's tough. I just bought Working Solo and Dan Antonelli's book. I'm taking some shop management classes. Hopefully it'll help me get the gazungas!!
My biggest problem is time management. Prioritize, prioritize! Every minute counts. Everyone wants something yesterday and for free. I have to get gazungas and belly up to the bar and explain my schedule. I hope they'll understand. If not, I tried. It's scary to run the business the correct way but I guess once we start it'll be much better. I've spoken to a lot of people about this over the last few weeks and they all say it's a game. I want to get better at this game. I'm determined.
Once again, it's great to know we're not the only ones out there dealing with these situations! My sister owns her hair salon and has the same thing ("cut my hair long") and my brother leases trucks ("need the truck tomorrow"). Crazy Crazy Crazy. Praying helps.
the last time i had to call the guy was on wednesday morning and said, "HEY, where's my cheque?" he said to call him at the end of the day. he called me first that evening and said it would be sent up the next day. he apologized all over the place. i said it was cool. it's done now.
then, 2 other people from the big company he's partners with called, apologizing all over the place. then they asked me to do another job, assuring me i would be paid immediately after i invoiced them. and, the job has a tight deadline. they said charge whatever you need to, hire whoever you need to to get the job done.
on top of that, they paid the balance of the invoice that was due on oct. 25 AND the invoice that was due nov. 25
they have a new site manager, and the guy i was dealing with i'm no longer dealing with. he's been sent to another site. so there you go....
it sure felt good standing up for myself and receiving proper treatment....
------------------ free to paint, day and night :) Gailforce Airbrush & Design Squamish, BC, Canada www.gailforce.homestead.com
posted
Dearest Gail, That's wonderful news! I'm very happy for you. If you're ever having a bad day, let me be the first to say a little bit of dough can make a dull day roll. I know it is'nt everything but it' good to have alittle bit to get around the snags of a regular day. Good for You!!
------------------ There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and what has been will be again. Daniel R. Perez Daniez Dzines Fresno, CA daniez2001@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by Daniez (edited November 09, 2000).]
Posts: 299 | From: Fresno, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Gail , glad everything turned out ok. We have been took one time in three years by a person running for sheriff a couple of years ago. After failing to get our money we took a picture of him in town and posted it on the wall in our shop with a note at the bottom that reads "Name doesn't pay his bills", everyone who comes in can see it.
------------------ SignCrafters of London London Ky mestep@kih.net
Posts: 89 | From: London, KY | Registered: Dec 1998
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(like i care)...
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