posted
I guess doing a job for yourself is the hardest of all. I was so inspired by this months Sign Business, that I have decided to create a new shingle for myself. In an effort not to be plaguristic (sp), I'm sorta stumped as to where to go from here. My personal favorites in the magazine are the BOURGON, RICO'S PIZZA,POIRRIER'S ROCKBURN and SHILO VALLEY. These chosen for shape,color and presentation, although all were fabulous. I am posting a roughout here as a start of what I would like to do. It is a jpg, but if you would like a CDR file to rip apart, just e-mail me. If you haven't got a copy of this mag, try to get one.... Rip it apart, as nothing is set in concrete yet. Bronzeo
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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I see a few problems right off. First is the copy crowding the edges of the sign. Next is the large negative space above the "RT" in ART, and last being the use of a script on an arch in "signage".
please don't take offense; you asked for a critique. Doing something for yourself is a struggle! I've messed with my own logo dozens of times, and currently have it in at least three or four entirely different formats around the shop, between the truck, the windows, the business cards, and so on. My theory is that it shows how creative and varied one can be with the same copy.
Recently I've been working with another BB person on his logo, and we pass design ideas back and forth by fax and e-mail. Feel free to join in with yours if you like.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Jack, adding to Cam's insight, the arc on Imagemaker fights with the above arc describing the format of the sign. That is a word that needs to be far more highly emphacized too. Won't it be what someone would look up in the phone book?
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sorry Jack But I find everything bounces back and forth from Left to Right. No true harmony to the over all. Try a hard punch copy on the name and a soft sell copy on the secondary words
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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Hey Jack......you going to carve this one? And gold leaf? You can send me a cdl file...I will play with it over the weekend.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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Thanks all, First of all the border is not set or to correct design yet. After second look it does crowd somewhat. A few questions.....If "signage" of script in an arch is not correct, why? Should I use the same font as above,(I was told that I should not) or does the script just clash with the other styles. I am allowed only one sign by ordinance, so I'm fighting trying to seperate the businesses at least a little(the reason for the seperation). My sign business is growing rapidly, but I don't want it to front the rest of the Art Gallery. I agree with the arc of the Imagemaker fighting the other oval. Should this be straight, as the arch is a little to strong to follow and look good?. The dancing of copy might be pleasing to some but confusing to others. It was an attempt to get away from my constant overbalancing that drives people nuts. Cam, how bad is the negative space over the rt??, as this is my font of choice, and the caps look like craps. Do you think resizing (redrawing) the rt would help. Keep in mind all that I'm putting this up as only a bare bones diagram and would like some opinion on some frills on the borders for carving. It will be carved, gilded, painted in as many as three tones. I will be at least 4x 6 or larger with borders.......After some answers to my questions, I will try to re-vamp the roughin. Thanks, Jack
[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: bronzeo ]
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Ok, Here is a redo that should clear some of the problems up. It still needs some embellishments, to get it to where I want to go, but please review the essentials. In this version I do not have my business name.......After 20 years people still know me as Jack Davis, artist,,,no matter what I use as a business name. I have used used The Davis Collection, Imagemaker Arts, and DeSign Dude (trademark title).....Maybe I shouldn't fight it a just stick my damn PlainJane name up there, and maybe people would know how to find me. It is amazing that everybody in town knows me, but don't know where I am. I am and have been in the very center of a town of 50,000 on Main Street for fifteen years. Anyway here's a second attempt. Jack
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Looks much better... But why fight it ?????????? Go ahead and put "Jack Davis" on the sign......Even if it is small.. why confuse the people who are trying to find you ????? BTW I like the name...it is the same name as my brother in law (Jack Davis) Shep'
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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Jack, I'm looking at a SIGN that tells me that you make signs and you are also an artist.......How about a piece of your wonderful art that says you also make signs? A pierced relief of one of your wildlife scenes would look great on that blank wall above your awning. It woulds add some color too. Just an idea......... Makin Chips and Havin Fun! Joe
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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But add a scroll piece to it or something to help the blend of things...
Colour is something else that you may want to think about. Bold and Hard background with a lustered gold lettering.. Image is only 4-6 seconds before the person starts to forget.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild!
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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Your second one is much better, but there are still a couple things that bother me. One, you need to bring all the copy in from the border a bit. Two, the angle created by the bottoms of the Art leads the eye right off the right hand edge of the sign and also creates some awkward negative space below the word.
If you are well known in your town, why not put your actual name on the sign?
I had some time to kill today so here is my version, keeping along the same style.
Have a great weekend!
[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Terry Whynott ]
posted
Thanks Terry, The piece looks nice but local poll is telling me that they like the stairstep look of "Art". Personally, I don't see a lot of design difference there, except for a slight bit of originality to probably my favorite fontstyle. I would be interested in more opinions on this matter, because I think Terry's look great also. I think that I need the program that portrays the 3D appearanceo to compete on presentation on this board. I am now viewing my own presentation and Terry's on my wifes computer, and the colors are way off. My chosen colors are dark navy and a pale teal, with gold copy and beige subcopy. These are subject to change. Terry, I am wanting some scroll embellishments. Do you have any ideas for this? One other thing to keep in mind is; I have no foot traffic. The sign must be read from the roadway. That is one reason that I am crowding the copy. I will try to relax that situation a little. I am still a little weird about my name on there, but its probably the smartest approach. Joe, I am certainly considering your idea of a piece of artwork on the wall, as it would draw more attention than the sign. Perhaps a large backlit edge print on an acrylic panel. Lighted up at night, it would have to grab. Thanks.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Jack, i like the second design much better. But i am still bothered by the arch at the bottom. Try flipping it over and covering a bit of the main sign. Your "signage" copy will be easier to read. I also like the use of your name as in Terry's design. If your customers know you as Jack Davis, it needs to be on your sign. I know how tough it is to design your own stuff. I am finally happy with my store front sign, and finished my truck today with a design i really like. Will post pictures.
posted
Jack, the three blocks at the bottom of ART look like stairs bringing my eye back up into a nrgative space in close to the graphic center of the sign. This is the space where what's most important should be happening and instead there is confusion.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Like Brad said, I too have thought from the first example that overlapping the "Signage" panel would add some dimension. Especially as a carved sign, rather then just the illusion of dimension.
As for the more opinions you asked for, I have to agree that the ART on a straight line, as well as more breathing room looks better to me. A nice balanced design will offset the slightly smaller copy enough to increase impact.
I also thought some actual art would be a nice addition if a small oval pictorial were to fit into a layout. I could picture an old style looking image of a sculpter/carver in a woodblock style, but your own painting style would be the obvious best choice on that idea. Weather it fits on the sign or elsewhere on the building I think your painting would be much better then an edge print.
posted
I agree that I am crowding slightly and will probably back out a little with it. I am posting a photo of the front of my gallery and also a picture of the painting that I would like to print and backlight. I pretty sure it would take a biggolotta practice to get something like this to outdoor media by brush. It will be viewed from about 15 plus feet at the closest on the side of the building that barely shows here. Terry's rendition is nice also, but the copy is not going to read well from the street at the size of sign that is going to fit there. The second store is a jewelry store that I lease space to. I have about a 5 x 6 maximum to work with, on a 4 lane, 35 mph street with little foot traffic. Maybe trying to go oval is a mistake for me on this particular sign, as it robs valuable space. I just like ovals. I will try reversing the bottom scroll. I still personally like my stairsteped Art, and even the negative space that it creates from a creative point, but perhaps wrong in signage. I nature art the negatives are as intrigueing as the subject.
[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: bronzeo ]
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Jack, that painting looks great. Are you familiar with Duratrans? for backlighting I think a duratrans is almost like a color slide with much higher resolution then the Edge. I'm not sure what it's outdoor life expectancy is or size limitations though.
posted
Perhaps I don't know enough about your work, but to me, sculpture and carving seem a bit redundant. That said, I like Terry's re-draw. The stair-step version of "Art" bothered me but I didn't realize why, until I read the comment about leading the eye toward a negative space in the center.
You asked why script doesn't work on an arc. It's because in effective script or italic, the axis of the letters are placed at the same angle, parallel to each other. Bending the line on a arc throws these axis out of parallel, creating visual confusion.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Mike Stevens wrote about"compulsive graphic relativity", there is alot of that going on here in the first two designs. I think Terry did an excellent job on his redraw A little time studying the differences and what he did is very enlightening.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Does anyone like the shade of navy that I chose?
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Jack, I was holding back on the color issue. That navy is awful. What's with the oval anyways? Where did you get that letter style? Other than that it looks ok I guess.
Alright now that I teased you about your post and design (really, just kidding), I have to say I admire anyone who posts there work and asks people to go at it. Usually successful people do that.
Your second rework seems to be good to me. Not a lot one can do with that location and still get the message out. Window displays and signage for additional information and graphics would be good for any other messages.
posted
Jack, I'm a carver. Maybe this is why I like to remember what Gary Anderson said in one of his books, "there are only four basic design decisions you can make: 1) pictorial, 2) typestyle, 3) shape, 4) color. This is the order that I approach a design project. Not all will be appropriate for every project, but I apply as many as I can to every job." Jack if you thought about your design in this way, in this order, what , if anything would change? Asking for educational purposes only. Joe Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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A little time studying the differences and what he did is very enlightening.
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