posted
I'd have said 'Well then you shouldn't have ordered your signs yet!' I have heard every excuse in the book.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Harvey Dean had a banner in his office that read, "Please Pay Us, so that we can pay them, so they can pay you."
Other than that, defined contracts are the better way to go. A 50% deposit should cover your expenses in the manufacture. Getting a check for the balance when they pick up the sign should cover the rest. If that arraingement is inconvenient, do it vise versa.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
posted
i used to get that line all of the time when i dealt with Advertising Agencies.(one of the reasons i don't work with ad agencies anymore.
i used to tell them that when alabama power calls about me not paying my power bill i just tell the utility company, "as soon as i get paid for a sign i will pay you" followed by, "if i told them(the power company) that, i would be sitting in the dark!"
posted
I make it quite clear at the point of sale that I cannot afford to finance any clients' advertising budget, thus the reason for a 50% deposit & balance due upon delevery(c.o.d.). It is the truth so usually they can't argue with it,...When large corporations need work I ask for a purchase order number & payment schedules, then relegate my charges accordingly so & at the same time I let them know that if they pay fast they will pay less, giving them the chance to save money.Often as not it works,thus eliminating the need for excuses on their part & mine.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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if i might add an appendage to this post...
be agressive as far as past due accounts.
if you don't ask for it, you might not get it.
(if it ****es them off, then who gives a sh*t?, believe it or not you don't need this kind of business anyway, after all we are not in the business of financing sign projects, that cost money, just ask a bank! )
always require the customer have a monetary investment.(a deposit)
I never get a deposit up front, and am rarely paid on delivery..........my suppliers never ask for deposits and they all give me at least 30 days on my account.......why should I expect any differnt from my customers?
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
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Well, John the reason we ask for money up front is because we aren't as large as our suppliers and if someone is going to spend a lot of money with me a downpayment is a commitment from them that they are going to purchase a sign and not walk. Your supplier on the other realizes that it could take up to three or four weeks to build the product. They understand that by putting you on account that they will get paid when you get paid. One supplier recently told me that (believe it or not) there are sign shops with thousands of dollars in receivables. Many over 60 days. They say that is the cost of doing business. I say never let anyone not pay you. Harrass and send letters but never stop until you get paid. Even if it means court. Word gets out and people won't steal from you.
Kevin Landry KnL Signs
-------------------- Kevin Landry KnL Signs Halifax NS Posts: 314 | From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:they say that they havent sent your check cause they havent gotten paid
I say "Crap, I didn't do my job properly". Because my job is to tell them up front, both verbally and in writing, about the 50% deposit and full balance COD. Any other terms should have been discussed before accepting the job. I'm usually on the phone a couple days before the job is finished too, to inform them of the impending delivery and the full amount to have their check ready for, faxing a copy of the final invoice if necessary.
More and more these days, jobs under $200 are pre-paid when the order is taken. Jobs over $200 virtually always require a deposit before we consider them real jobs - up till we see money, they are just bids. About the only time we don't take a deposit is for rock solid, established accounts (and even then only when it's a fairly small job).
posted
my business (sign, screenprinting and graphic design) is set up cash & carry by choice. I pay for my materials and product C.O.D.
When the product gets to me, it belongs to me.
I don't like the idea of having more debt out there than I already owe.
I now get 50% deposit, which pays for the product, and the rest is due when they pick it up. This has led to a lot fewer headaches, and has allowed me to be mindful of jobs that are not profitable. I have had to turn down a few that seemed like a good job, but actually would have cost me.
99% of my customers have had no problems with my "terms", the other 1% can go somewhere else and let THEM finance their project.
I actually had one client who was so adamant about giving them "net 30" terms or they were walking! I stood my ground and explained how I operated my business, and that I could not use up my limited cash flow to fund their project and not be able eat for a month. In the long run, they decided that my service and end product was worth staying with me. Now, not only do they gladly provide a deposit, most of the time they go ahead and pay for the whole thing IN ADVANCE!!!
If you have a business that has unlimited cash flow, then you can probably give the cliets "NET 30" and hope they will remember and pay on time.
AS for me "CASH & CARRY, THANK YOU"
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com
posted
I say, "The terms we've set up with you are ____ days. I must pay my suppliers on time so that is why we have terms we do. If you pay on time, your credit will be in good standing."
Something I don't say but impliment later is, cash up front if they've messed around with me previously.
You could also start tacking on late payment fees like any other company would do to us. I've yet to do that though.
posted
john martin....how long you been in this business, and is your sign work a play time thing because you have another full time job? for us who depend on PAYMENT to eat, you always get some money up front...for materials or just the fact that now you know they will pick up the sign, and if they dont you got SOME of THEIR money in it. suppliers are a different setup, without some"hook" to get you to purchase from them, you will go elsewhere. and extended 30 days payment is a good one. ask the MATCO, MAC, SNAP-ON tool truck owners......and their are a few that have lost their a**es doin this.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Haven't been on this BB but once in several weeks..but hey, I see nothing has changed. Old Paint, I think John is from Mayberry or is it Pleasantville?
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: RonniesTintSigns ]
-------------------- Ronnie Conrad Augusta,Ga Posts: 374 | From: Augusta,Ga. | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
sure aint pensacola.....was in business from 86-98 in sarasota and never got stiffed....till i moved here....and been had to the tune of $650, $300 and 200........in 36 months.....got a job today, no materials needed to purchase, but got $60 in cash up front before i even cut the 1st piece of vinyl........
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I work on a strict seven days from invoice, terms by arrangement only. It's COD, nett seven days or no work for them...Nearly everyone pays COD if you ask.I don't generally have many problems collecting... Did I mention that I'm 5'11" 115 kgs and a second degree blackbelt. Intimidation...Whats that?
-------------------- Lee Attewell Graffic Jam Auto Unit 3, 1731 Albany Highway, Kenwick Western Australia 6108 Posts: 102 | From: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'm moving into my 5th year of business. This is not a play time hobby, its my livelihood ....I've cut probably over 500 invoices in that time and my gross lose to date is.... $75.00.
I think your business practices are good & sound.....very safe.
When I started out, my intentions were to follow the very same practices.....but it hasn't worked that way. However I have found that people always pay......99% of the time. Yes……. perhaps that 1 time big job could wipe me out……..but, hell,I’m better prepared now after hearing from the likes of you.
I probably will conform to these business practices as I grow....tough to change in mid stride.
Do you ever make exception?...maybe for the Redheads eh!
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
posted
I bought my shop from a former employer 5-1/2 years ago. I took over several accounts, but was starting out on zero receiveables, zero savings, & zero business experience. I have been very irate with the few who tried to drag their feet on payment just a little too long. One construction company started making a habit of excuses, I showed up in person and guilt tripped the owners wife (who did the ordering & the promising) into offering to pay from her personal checkbook as a bluff. I said that is exactly what I would do. She hinted that it may cost me the account, & I was honestly able to tell her that my collection troubles made their business worthless to me. I have never regretted that. The only uncollected debt in over 5 years was $200 from a restaurant that went bankrupt, but I got the sign back. A nice re-useable panel.
I do the 50% down, C.O.D. on balance, but I have about a dozen 30 day accounts. They are all reliable & high dollar repeat customers, except one who just crossed the line, & will be back on the cash & carry program next time.
posted
well.....if the redhead looks like Gwyeniver....but i still would "get somethin up front".....hehehehehehehehehehe
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
yeah, a lot of my customers are ad agencies, and they tend to work on really LONG billing cycles... like 90 days. i charge them accordingly. the only ones i ever had trouble with were a couple of merger/aquisitions, where you had to jump through hoops to find who the new check cutter was, and what town they were in. eventually they paid up. (TV stations and magazines get paid on 120 days sometimes... depending on the size of the agency and how much clout they have).
all that said, "just trusting people to pay you" is probably a sound policy... IF.
IF you have a signed contract with them that they WILL pay you.
IF you figure you could make more selling new work than you can doing collections
IF you don't run on a tight margin
IF your suppliers extend you some credit
IF you have adequate cash/credit reserves to allow you to operate on a longer billing cycle
IF most of your work is repeat work with clients you know and trust
Based on the above, a Qwik-N-Fast sign shop should probably be COD and a custom fabricator could probably expect to extend some credit. In reality, the well run franchise shops have corporate accounts with established credit (ie, they fill out an application and you check their credit worthiness before giving them a sign) and work on a 30-60 day net cycle.
So far, the only people i've had trouble collecting from in the past three years was a local 5-person architectural signage shop who took 68 days to pay a net 15 invoice.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I just hate having to chase some customers down.
I learned my lesson early on when a larger project from a "respected" member of the local community where I live ran me ragged. We even did the 50% deposit deal, and the rest was due after I applied the graphics to their semi trailer.
There wasnt any problems with getting paid, they had the money, it was a matter of catching up with them to get the check. Either I wasn't available to answer their call or they were out of town (business based in Cali, commute to Havasu where they operate their racing team)
After that little run around (was a pain for both parties in this case) we mutually agreed that future jobs would be payment 100% up front. This way neither of us have to run around looking fo each other. They just pay the bill, they get the graphics when they're done.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I do the deposit, balance due at completion policy. I have let this slip a little for one customer. I do little stuff for him and he has referred me a lot of work. A couple times I've taken stuff to his shop (small auto body shop) and he hasn't been there. I leave the sign/stickers for him and an invoice. Usually I run into him at the bar Friday nights and he comes over, digging money out of his pocket and asks what he owes me before I even realize he's there. He's in the same boat most of us are, small one man shop, (occasionally a helper) but if he doesn't get paid he doesn't eat. He has terms on his door 50% deposit up front, rest at completion of job or vehicle stays here. He also has the Helen Waite sign.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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