posted
Did I ever mention, the School of Hard Knocks is getting extremely expensive these days.
Yesterday I finished up striping a new Dodge Ram. The day before I had started this job and ran the straight stripes. 2 color, bright red and imitation gold. I let the stripes dry over night. ( so I thought ). The next day when I finally get back to working on this job the red was still tacky. So I figured I'd add a little jap dryer, to speed up the drying time.
Ok so I fill about a half a dixie cup ( 3oz ) with bright red and a drop of jap dryer, then I thought it might dry too fast soooooooooo I add a drop of smoothie.
Off to the garage I go with all my tools I need to screw this job up.
Oh Did I mention I Looooooove my Killer Kart.
Anyway, I finish the job right about quiting time and the customer shows up, The paint is still a little tacky but I've never had a problem, the guyy pays me and off he goes.
It was lightly raining last night, but again I've never had a problem EVER. Till now. I get a call this afternoon, IT was my customer telling me most of the striping fell off.
After a smug chuckle I say OK jokes over funny funny, but no joke he says.
He comes to the shop and I couldn't believe it, the hood design the tail light designs, the wheel wells, tail gate, visor designs all came off. He had wiped it clean so it would not dry all screwed up. So none was left to examine except up around the 3rd brake light on the cab. It was still on the truck but it was as flat as primer and stained with water drops. ( and it was still a little rubbery .
He claimed it was all flaky and running down the truck. The straight stripe which had no jap dryer at all was intact.
I plan on re doing this truck Tomorrow so any advice as to why this would have happened would be extremely appreciated.
Be gentle please! I've had a Bad day
[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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That has got to be the dangest thing I heard all week... Sheesh.... I can't wait to hear just what happened.
I did an outline this week on some lettering in process green. I added some hardner to the enamel. I did the same with some 50/50 red. The red was dry the next morning while the green took almost two days to dry.
Almost sounds like the same kind of thing, eh? Must be some kind of Bermuda triangle shorts thing... LOL!
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter
Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I've never messed with japan dryers but I believe I've read where they will dry from the surface in, in other words forming a skin. I think the big problem was the rain. I've had all those conditions happen at various times. I've seen jobs get rained on when almost nothing happens except some minor spotting. I've had dew make lettering enamel look like poster, I've gotten the rubber effect, I've had striping fall off in two foot sections and then stick like glue in the new location ( be glad he wiped it off before it dried ) It could have been the japan, the smoothie, or the combo of japan and smoothie, but I'd lay it off on the dampness and the rain. Not too much you can do about the weather and I don't like using it but some hardener might be the answer here. Or HOK
BTW, a lot of guys like to put smoothie or some other fisheye eliminator in everything they paint. The ONLY time I use it is on something that has been painted with fish eye eliminator in it, the reason it helps with the flow of the paint is it's mainly silicone.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I guess I should say I had that problem but I won't, cause I never did. All I can say it preparation is everything when making paint stick but also in your neck of the woods weather could also be a factor.
Since I have a different formular for my paints where I don't use Japan dryer even though I do have a can. I don't know what to tell ya Bob, unless of course you are serious about my knowledge in which case ya can email me or if you like, we'll speak landline.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
bob was the gold an old can or new? could be all the dryer in that paint went into the skins if its an old can. weather is the culprit i think...but usein SQUIRTZ(SMOOTHIE) on a new truck is a no no...did the guy have the truck waxed with a TEFLON BASED wax?....ive run into this one before nothing sticks to teflon. find out before you repaint..
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
If'n you prepped the surfaces good enough, i'd expect the problem to be the "smoothie". If you used it to start with because you had a fisheye problem then the surfaces still had silicone on it. if you used too much smoothie (darn near pure silicone) you could have a porblem too, sort of like painting a waxed based paint on something, you ever used rub-n-buff? I know in autobody painting, a cap full of"smoothie" per quart of mixed material is the max, my guess is the ratio would be 2000 to 1? I don't know why one color would dry faster than another, but it happens with basecoats too. Also , never used Japan dryers, dont know what that is, but dryers in auto paint just helps the paint cure better, has nothing to do with drying to the touch really.
posted
I'm suspecting that it was the addition of both smoothie & the Jap dryer.
I bought a brand new can of Bright red just to make sure. Because the fact that it din't dry after a whole night drying worries me about the old can. Yup the whole skin thing came to mind.
I guess it's time to do the paint save thing with the screw in the can huh Joey?
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm with George on this one. A few drops of Hardener to the one shot is all you need. I have never used Smoothie or will I ever. As others have stated the surface prep is as important as the painting.
I have had this happen to myself when I first stared in this business. Lettered a truck in the driveway and sent it on it's way but that night it rained Cats and Dogs!
Customer returned the next day and I corrected all the runs and spotting.
Good Luck!
[ December 02, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Bob Dave Grundy is right, throw away that smoothie - it causes more problems than it solves. If you striped the truck on a damp day & the night was damp it's likely to be tacky or soft the next day. Use 1Shot's hardner - 3-4 drops in a 3/4 full 1oz. medicine cup and make sure your heat is 68 -70 degrees overnight. You shouldn't have any problems. I only put 1 or 2 drops of flow enhancer in my paint and work with next to no reducer when I paint - too much solvent w/ smoothie kills the gloss. Invest in 1 or 2 Infratech drying lamps - they not only can help move drying along on a complex job - but they MAY have saved your just by cooking it! Hope this helps - I empathize - Iv'e been in your shoes!
posted
Bob, here's my suggestions for what they're worth. 1.Do not use "Dixie" type cups they could contain wax. 2.Use a plastic type cup instead.(Xcaliber) 3"Smoothie" will not slow the paint down, I only it add when the vehicle has been re-painted and "Smoothie" was added to the auto body paint. 4.Use 1-Shot hardener and their low-temp reducer. 5.I use "Rapid-Prep" to clean the surface before any lettering or striping is applied and have not had any problems since I started using it about 4 yrs.ago. 6.Finally, it has been my experience that water and paint do not mix.In my 30+ yrs. in this business, I can tell you that any "come backs" that I have encountered have been because I allowed the vehicle to leave in a rain storm, snow or just plain damp weather. Keep the vehicle overnight if you have to or switch to a urethane. "Keep on Paintin"
( be glad he wiped it off before it dried )
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