posted
I've posted about this before. But tomorrow I'm gonna actually mess around with glass gilding. I've obtained some good reference material about this proceedure but they refer to geletan capsules in the size mixture. I could only get powder. So one of my questions is does anybody have a good ratio for mixing the powder with the water? And then comes the backing paint. I have lamp black Japan color paint and was told to add a little varnish into the black for a binder. I was told by an old timer near me that i'd could probably find spar varnish. Well I found only spar eurathane. So my second question is will this be a good substitute for the varnish or should I use the lamp black japan color by itself, will it hold up? Thanx in advance for any light on this stuff.
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Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We always added spar varnish to the japan color, but I remember Al Grand demonstrating his method of backing up with straight japan color at the letterhead meet in Denver in '85. It worked fine for him, I found it too brittle and the timing was too critical for cleaning off the excess gold.
As far as how much gelatin powder to mix into your distilled water, do some tests. Mix some and see how easily a test patch cleans off after its dried, and how cloudy the gild is. It doesn't take very much.
Also, someone might also have some comments about the difference between using animal and vegetable gelatins.
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The Sign Shop Mendocino, CA.
[This message has been edited by Rick Sacks (edited July 14, 1999).]
Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Here we strike the difficulty in trying to describe something when we are used to different terminolgy.
In Australia, we don't use the same terms for paints so I'm not entirely certain of what Japan Black and spar varnish is. But I'm pretty sure Japan is real fast and spar varnish is a slow drier (several hours or more) and this would make a good combination
The thing with backing paint is it only has to protect the gold so you clean up (and last for years too, but that is expected). A very quick drier will become too brittle.
At the other extreme, I have backed up with lettering enamel but it is slow and remains too soft for many days and tends to break at the edges. I wouldn't use it normally.
I use a product here called drop black. It is highly pigmented in fast drying gold size. Dries sufficiently hard in 2-3 hours but is best left overnight for trouble free cleanup.
As for gelatin, I use capsules (you can also get it in sheet and diamond form). They are easy to get at a chemist (drug store) but have used cooking gelatin (granules, not powder). These need more heat to dissolve than capsules.
Cover an area of 10- 15 mm square (a small coin) with a single layer to do roughly a pint of water.
If you use it too strong, it goes cloudy. It can be scalded with hot/boiling water. This dissolves some of the gelatin out and clears the gild but it also weakens it.
I don't know the sources of the different gelatin products but that is a good point worthy of looking into.
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Local Pharmacy!? For Gelatin!? No. No. No. Gelatin gets "stale" as it ages (it has to do with humidity), go to a goldleaf supplier like Sepp Leaf in New York and get good fresh capsules that will disolve completely. For backup, I have found none better than Finegold, sold by Rick Glawson, at Esoteric Supply in California. (If Glawson doesn't have an ad here, I apologize.) Gilding on glass isn't all that hard, but experimenting with backup mixtures and stale gelatin will just end up frustrating you. My advice - buy your products from specialists, and save a lot of headaches.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
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Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
For backup I always used the black they use on neon to block out light.I haven't done any glass gold in a while,I think it was laquer and it was tuff on brushes but lasts a long time
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Sorry to be late, I have been gone a week. Bruce has the right idea for "powder" or granule gelatin, cover a US dime with a single layer and powder must be boiled then cooled, but not chilled as it will gel. Knox granule gelatin is the one to use, not the dietary supplement that comes in small capsules. Animal gelatin contains gelatinous protien which has adhesive quality similar to hide glues. Vegetable gelatins contain only trace amounts of this protien and therefore make poor adhesives although the gelatin quality is better for dietary reasons. Better to use the sheet gel and also Fine Gold's Backing Enamel. The varnishes mostly have changed and those available locally are compounded urethanes which will not hold up to the washing. Since pharmacists are now mostly pill peddlers, they rarely carry empty caplsules and if they have any, they will be old and hard to dissolve. I have detailed all this in both the addendum published over the last four years in ST and in the 4th Edition.
Mark the phrase was coined by Stephen Parrish.
------------------ Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio Greeley, Colorado, USA oldgilt@aol.com
Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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