posted
I've been contacted by quite a few area sign shops wanting me to supply them with routed products. What is the normal or fair discount to the trade? Thanks in advance to any and all replies!
posted
Interesting question...how to solve this dilema is a curiosity I've been watching for a lot of years...at the end of all this time I always come up with the same question!!!
Can I do it any cheaper for someone in the trade than for a customer?
The answer is obvious!
Another obvious point is...if the person that needs your services could do what you do, would they sell it to the customer at a discount?
I really feel the true answer is charge the same to all let them mark it up.
As long as I've been in this trade I've never recieved a "discount" that I knew of...hell even the suppliers are getting retail for their goods...oh I know...I know... they all offer 10% off if your a good customer and pay your bill on time. I pay on delivery where's the discount for that? Shouldn't a cash customer get a better break?
Geez ...I seem to be ranting here ...sorry!
My opinion (if you still want it) let them buy the materials by giving you and "up front" check get the best deal you can and pass it on to them...charge well for your labor and if they pay when they pick it up give them 10% If they say "bill me" give them nothing...because it will cost you more than that,just to run them down for the money.
"Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I think if another shop sells your product, you can give 10-15% off to keep them doing so. If they can make 10-15% and not have to send their customer away empty handed they will do so over & over. I give repeat customers a little break for similar logic to quantity price breaks. If you don't give the discount they might still get away with the mark-up sometimes, but I consider it like advertising expense to get more of your product sold. If your too busy to advertize, or take more work, (& I know many are) then I guess you wouldn't use my logic to offer the discount to the trade.
posted
Wholesale work...hmmm. I've bought exactly four routed jobs from "wholesalers". So far I'm two for four. Two of these folks screwed me up in a big way. Two took good care of me. I keep trying to find sources closer to handle the occasional jobs we have, but it's scary to try new people. If you plan on being one of the really reliable ones, you'll have to be VERY careful and thorough in how you take the orders, how you communicate exactly what's going to happen and watch like a hawk for mistakes that you will have to eat, happily and quickly, to stay in good graces. The bigger the orders, the more RISK you take, the more responsibility you assume. No matter what, they will happen and you'll be out a lot more than just your labor, so think carefully about how slim you want to narrow down your profit margin with a discount.
If you're good, you'll be an exception. That's worth a little more to me. As far as what's customary in the trade, check out some of the national wholesalers. But don't be surprised if you can't compete with their prices, they've got financial backing to absorb setbacks and a hell of a volume going. Only you know what you have to make to cover yourself. If your potential clients are anything like me, they are looking for someone close who they can touch and feel and come by to see their job in progress and discuss special needs. Maybe you could do some things the big boys cant... set up a pick up and delivery route to established accounts for instance. Offer a higher level of service and convenience and your price becomes secondary. Good luck.
[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Joe Rees ]
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The main difference in selling to the trade is I don't have any design or sales time involved. Its just print, rout or whatever a file that I presume is all setup except for maybe some file conversion or adjustment. The way I see it, that's worth around 30% off.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1072 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Good point Chuck. The way I translate that is the sign shops get to mark up their part of the job as much as they want to - the design, panel preparation, finishing, installation and whatever else they've sold along with the job. That's the way I work with router services...I send them the files and panels with support printouts. It's still surprisingly easy for the router service to misinterpret, assume, or just plain goof. Then they're responsible for replacing everything at no additional cost to me. I'd be EXTREMELY cautious about discounting to ANYONE.
A better point of view might be to calculate a necessary shop survival margin and make that the standard rate - charging retail sales 30% MORE - PLUS adding on whatever extra services the retail job would require, like sales time, design, panel fabrication, file preparation, finishing, etc.
posted
Hiya Brian, I'm somewhere between Monte and Chuck on this one. Joe brings up some good points too. I don't believe in discounts. Let your clients generate their own discounts by supplying their own designs, files, materials that are acceptable to you, etc. You still charge full rate for your work, you just invest less time into the project. Havin' fun, Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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If you cannot afford to make a "wholesale" discount off your normal "retail" prices, maybe your "retail" prices are too low to begin with.
Let them supply the materials and artwork if you have to, at least then they have the option to get good stuff or cheap out on the job instead of being "forced" to go with your usual products and your markup.
You can always setup a price schedule too.. require a minimum order to get a discount, or even establish a varying discount that starts small but increases as they continue to purchase more work from you in the future. This way they will be motivated to use your services in the future instead of getting one big job in the beginning and giving them a 30% discount right off the bat only to never hear from them again.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
ive done a couple small routed signs for another sign shop.....and i wont do it again. this was when i was in sarasota, and the sign shop was a guy who couldnt do a design in his sign program. he supplied the wood, and printout out of the work to be done. i had to make pattern, then do all the dirty work. i would return it to him unpainted. the last job he asked me to do i went there to get the wood.....and it was a piece of #2 pine with knots everywhere. told him to get me a piece of #1 clear fir, and he said well that stuff is expensive.....told him to get a router and see how expensive bits are!!!!!! no more did i do for him....and as for pricing...he didnt want to pay me for the work...but wanted to make all the money!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
After reading all the above posts....I wonder what kind of business people are around here!
I gladly do work for others!!!!! The more complete the design, the less it costs them!I also knock 10% off my usual rate and charge them for the work that I have to do!
They take my cost + their sales,design, overhead and profit, and add them all together = selling price....plenty of profit for both parties!
Don't let Ego and Greed get in the way of pure business deals!
Just my opinion....that has worked very well for nearly 35 years!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
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siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
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Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I think Pat has the right idea on this. The salesman you don't maintain on a daily basis is worth 20% of the selling price of a job. That would have been in your cost anyway.
posted
We do quite a bit of wholesale work for other shops in our area. In fact most of our business is wholesale. I geneally discount between 15%-40%. the highest discounts apply to our ADA signage. I do quite a bit for franchise shops to. I have found them to be quite easy to work for. They pay their bills, and know what they want.
Posts: 121 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Registered: Feb 2001
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