posted
Hello Heads.. I'm going to send up a "trial balloon" here to see how many of you like this idea, and what other suggestions that you can come up with to improve upon it. If you see anything negative, feel free to add your comments as well.
The introduction of computers into the sign making industry has also brought with it a lot of people with no previous background in the design, manufacture, or installation of signs. In some instances, this has been good, and in those cases, the new people have striven to acquire the necessary skills and knowledge to be in this business. Unfortunately, this has not always been the case. People who's only interest is turning a fast buck have also gotten into this field of endeavour, and those people have hurt the industry badly. They have devalued work to the point where things we once produced for a healthy profit are no longer so. These people often have absolutely NO interest in self improvement in the areas of design, business management, or skills.
We have to collectively set ourselves APART from such people.
What if, a Letterheads Craft Guild were to be established, with the entry criteria being a committment by members to strive to improve their creative efforts and finished products . That committment might involve attending at least 1 live meet or workshop per year. At such meets, a membership decal could be awarded those having attended, with the year up-dated and an indication of the workshop attended. If you have ever had a prescription filled, you may have noticed that the pharmacists have their Certificate of Qualification on the wall, with similar type stickers in place. I know that a lot of Letterheads already do this, but there are those in this industry (non Letterheads) who have no interest whatsoever in such involvement. Those who have hosted a Meet , Workshop, or Seminar, could also be recognized as being "Master Letterheads", Master Craftsman" or some such designation. Publicly identifying your shop as being a supporter and active member of The Letterheads Craft Guild, could ultimately be beneficial both to yourself, and also to potential clients as well. It could also be significantly beneficial in marketing your work, and your business too, as other businesses become more aware of what to expect from members of such a guild.
What are your thoughts. Could this concept work? What negative issues can you see or identify that should be corrected?
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ?
Except, instead of 'Letterhead' which the general public would not understand what that means,or 'crafts' which might mean arts and crafts... purhaps 'Sign Writer's' Guild?
posted
GREAT idea Ken.I have been doing this all my life anyway!Then come to find out,there are others going by the name "Letterheads" Imagine my surprize. The part about COULD help your business.Does not matter one bit to the customer.They are only interested if you CAN do signs and is the reason any Johnny come lately have sign shops. As a for instance:It didn't matter if I was drunk or stoned.I could be both,and STILL produce a quality sign via the best deign. Furthermore some people are just not Joiners of any organizations. This is probably why the disorganized organization known as "Letterheads" work so well in our strive for improvement and sharing.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ken, I appreciate the idea of helping us all learn and get better. I don't think attending a workshop should be presented as a credential to the public though. A few bad signs done by some with plaques on the wall might do more harm for the rest than ever expected. Hosting a meet doesn't improve the finished product for a sign purchaser either, so a plaque saying thank you might be in order rather than some master designation.
Those that want to learn have so many recourses available to them now that their lack of motivation might be the wall between them and them doing their best. Many of us save to buy tickets to far away places to attend workshops. There are design workshops and gilding classes and carving classes that go on regularly, both in letterhead meetings and in studios across the continant. There are design classes in community colleges, all kinds of business classes, and classes teaching how to write a business plan. There are some great books too. Several years back there were groups that agreed with the Mike Stevens approach and got together periodically to help each other see that way. There are local graphic designer groups.
I think the goods are there.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
posted
If ya wanna plaque or certificate shouldn't you should be able to make it yourself in order to deserve it ? It would be wild if we could come up with some sort of common design amongst ourselves to add to such a panel or certificate.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Here in Port Angeles we have a sign guild. I am the VP...We have 8 members so far. We have opened it to Sign Folks, designers, carvers and artists. We get together once a month for breakfast or meet at each others shop. Our intent was to get those that are just beginning in this business to understand the scope of making GREAT signs. It has eliminated a lot of bad-mouthing and distrust among each other. We have shops that have just started and shops that have been around a long time. We haven't solved the pricing problem yet...alas...I wonder if it will ever be resolved... It seems to have worked on a small local level...I don't see why it wouldn't work on a global scale...just a little difficult to get everyone in my shop..hahahaha I would LOVE to go to a live meet...just haven't been able to so far..but it is on my list of things to do. I would love to sling some paint with people that understand what painting a sign is all about... soooo...count me in..I love the idea.
and...so see Y'all at a live meet.
Posts: 1002 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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Great idea Ken, but I think Tim has the right idea. In order to qualify you should be able to produce a quality sign and design. Just attending is hardly enough to produce a craftsman. Or a craftsperson.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Sorry man, but promoting the idea that you have the desire & talent of an artistically driven signmaker with a "decal" is a lame idea. If your shop doesn't scream that already by conveying those values in its signwork & general appearance you need to question if you are truly the artist you mean to be. besides, any computer geek can copy a design, and make their own "authentic" decal. I would"nt want to be asssociated with that.
-------------------- Jerry Steward Sign&Print Bethlehem, PA Posts: 126 | From: Bethlehem, PA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Hi folks. Sorry If somehow, this decal thing became the focus of this thread. That wasn't the intent at any time. Jackson Smart appears to be the only one so far who has grasped the concept of what was intended. If I wanted to, yes, I could produce my own killer decal, but as some have indicated, that's NOT what this is about at all. This idea is probably doomed from the get-go, since as Pat King pointed out, a lot of folks involved in Letterheads just arn't the "joiner type".
Thanks for your thoughts and input, in any event.
Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
As Jack has a group going in his community, there is also one in Portland, that Lee Littlewood and Pete McKearnon have been involved with for around a dozen years now. Perhaps you could contact one of them and get something going where you live.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Our guild is called "Olympic Northwest Sign Guild". Each person has to agree and sign the following: I swear and avow to the following standards. !. To serve my customers with respect, integrity and honesty. 2. To provide the highest quality of material and workmanship. 3. To treat fellow members with respect, amity and prefessional demeanor. 4. To openly share our knowledge, skills and new market concepts.
The truth of the matter is that we are dealing with personalities...and you all know what can happen. All in all...we have a great group of people...but we know there are certain areas we cannot go. Belonging instills a pride of ownership...the group belongs to us all.
If I can assist...please feel free to contact me...I will gladly share any information I might have.
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun"
Posts: 1002 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
I think it's a great idea............so long as the standard is set reasonably high with the emphasis being on Brush skills,. Dont know how others would feel about it but I would love to see the computer excluded from the skills base.
Beginners need mentors to look up to and aspire to, those in the guild need to be accessable, ready to take a newby on board, guiding them to the standard set by the guild.
Food for thought at least.
RobC
-------------------- Rob Clark Rob Clark Design 11 Lassig st Moore Park Queensland Australia 0741598092
Posts: 421 | From: Australia | Registered: May 1999
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Ken, I think your concept is great. I also agree with Mark that the emphasis should be on design, which I'm sure we all agree is the basis of a good sign, whether it's hand-painted, carved or a digital print. Reading Mike Steven's "Mastering Layout" three times all the way through and promising to adhere to the principles should be required to join....
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I believe that if there was a benefit to it at all, the benefit would be in buying power.
I also believe that Steve & Barb have already taken the bigest step in creating this web site, in which folks new to the business can get answers to most of thier questions.
I think this needs to be taken care of at the local level as it has in pockets across the country as Rick and Jackson have mentioned.
Now if this is to grow, it'll probally have to grow from withen these groups, and then to be united using the Internet and a web site like Letterhead, structured with representitives of regional groups choosing to participate in monthly meeting via the net.
It'd sure be nice to enjoy the 20%+or- on materials and medical costs that the francises benefit through unity.
posted
Theoretically its a great idea and in reality there are 2239 registered persons here in Letterville and of these 2239 persons, how many names have you seen posting?
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I have to disagree with Rob. The emphasis shouldn't be on "brush" skills, but on "good design". It really doesn't matter what tools you use. I've seen plenty of painted signs that look like crap.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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In principle I think your idea is fine. The next thing would be how to set it up, and how to include everyone who should participate.
Going back to an old thread about the "old-way" sign folks, we all know there are a lot of talented people who don't use computers or the web, and wouldn't be aware of something like this, except by hearsay or rumor. The point being that these people would end up being left out.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Since we are just thinking out loud here, how about this... The Mayor and City Council come up with an award of some kind, and then give out the award for "Sign of the Week" at Letterheads.
The winner has something that he can be proud of, but which addresses only the single sign, and not the business as a whole.
This creates motivation for all to get serious about displaying their work here.
Winners can only be "Sign of the Week" only once. Then maybe you have a sign of the quarter and sign of the year for them.
You would recognize 52 signwriters a year. Not enough, but at least a start.
Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA
Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Ken..I have been following this thread for a couple of days..
I think your intent is admirable! ( I have to say that because Ken knows where I live )
As far as Rob's idea about excluding computer stuff...GREAT idea!!!!! Let's get rid of computers! and especially ROB'S COMPUTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT WAY HE CAN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT COMPUTERS WHILE USING ONE TO COMPLAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are ya gettin the message Rob?
Sorry...I HAD to vent.
Now I feel better.
Computer generated graphics are just as good as hand generated graphics... and vinyl graphics/lettering CAN look as good and definitly last longer than the crappy one shot paint that is available these days!
At least burgandy 2 mil vinyl lasts longer than 2 years before it fades away to the point that it is illegible!!!!!!!
AND!!!!!!! a decent design looks good no matter what medium is used!!
Geeeeezzzz I must be riled up!
and I am!!!!!!
I am totally tired of the hand painters using their computers to trash the folks who use computers to do their job!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Once again a post begins its slow down hill fall. Only to pick up momentum and turn to personal attacks. Last week I added to a post about the edge. Some took it as a personal attack on them which it wasn't. I to believe it makes no difference what you use, paint, vinyl, or digital, just put out good designs. I use a computer to do 99% of my design work. That is to say, I use it as my pencil, my brain is where I get my designs from. I think this thread started with a very noble gesture. This site should be used as a place where ALL sign people can talk about a changing industry and how we can make it work to benefit all. This should be done in a friendly manner without exclusion. The quill, the edge, the plotter, and chisels are all tools in our tool boxes. If you choose to use all of them or only one, try your best to put out quality work and designs. If you struggle with either, ask questions, go to a live meet, read the magazines and learn as much as you can. It will help you and the industry. None of us are to young or old to learn from each other. For once and for all could we put the personal attacks aside and come together as a group and help each other and help this craft we all come to talk about.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Rob Larkham Signs & Lettering 21 Middlefield Road Chester, MA. 01011
413-354-0287 Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Please accept my apologies for any offence caused.
Of course we are all artisans regardless of the tools used, my preference happens to be the brush, I make no apologies for that.
After all we can only speak from our own unique perspectives, It doesn't make any of us better than another, just different, thats what keeps it interesting.
RobC
-------------------- Rob Clark Rob Clark Design 11 Lassig st Moore Park Queensland Australia 0741598092
Posts: 421 | From: Australia | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Please accept my apology also Rob. I should not have named you in particular.
But I just took exception to the idea of excluding computers.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home