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To prepare the surface: Scuff the clearcoat with a scotchbrite pad 'till it looks slightly cloudy, then wipe down with alcohol or prepsol. Can you use Auto Air? Sure, and your surface prep is the same. I prefer PPG or HOK urethanes, but alot of people like Auto Air. You will then clear the whole tank. If you don't have the facilities to properly clearcoat, an option is to have your friend bring the decorated tank to a body shop for clearcoating and buff out.
This is a VERY brief post addressing your specific questions. Please feel free to email me with more questions. I will be happy to call you and talk about your options, etc. if you like.
Current email: ddonnelly@pbp1.com
DannyD
-------------------- Dan Donnelly Atlanta, GA
Posts: 139 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 1999
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but I would wetsand with 800-1200 instead of scotchbrite, for various reasons... If you do use scotchbrite, don't use red....green or grey are good. [ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: ray hill ]
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Hello Ray, I would not even try to paint something as detailed as an eagle with that auto air crap! It gets too frustrating the way it plugs up the air brush! That stuff is fine for kids stuff like felt banners. You can even use One Shot with a nice clearcoat. Works great and you can really keep the spray flowing nice. John Arnott- Good luck and have fun!
Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Ray....you can use the Auto Air,but make sure you have the Bond All and Catalyst that goes in it...I don't like to see people use it,but we like less to see people use 1shot (apologies to george perkins),i know thats a stab in the heart of many but i'm not saying that visciously...we listen to this all day long and RARELY do we see 1shot jobs come out problem free, and if this is a buddy deal and your first time doing it plan on Murphy visiting...and yes,you can use the 1shot catalyst in there but unless you have the spray facility it's not a very good idea...you also have to figure in who's clearing it for you..you generally have no idea in that case of the heaviness of coats or aggressiveness of the product b4 hand...you're dealing with two diff types of technology there...as somebody suggested in another post paint is dependent on a physical bond..in 1shot's case yes,dominantly so,while automotive urethanes (clear in this case) are about 70% dependent on chemical adhesion,they have to flow together and crosslink at a subsurface level for everything to work out like its supposed too and the two don't always like to mix...for a deal like this i wouldn't chance it. As far as prep goes....when you get the tank wash it with soap and water then clean it off with either Rapid Prep or denatured alcohol..donot use anything labeled prep sol or wax and grease remover...when its clean,water sand it with about 800grit paper( i think 1200 may be too fine for some clearcoats since you dont know what he's putting on top) until you achieve a uniformly smooth dull surface,shouldn't take much...then clean it again,then you're ready to do your artwork.You can improve the detail you get with te Auto Air and the drying time by making sure the tank is at minimum the same temperature as the room you're in or maybe a little bit warmer...mix your auto air in your jar,and heat some water in the microwave for a few(don't boil it)... and sit the spray bottle of auto air in the warm water for a llittle while,wipe it dry and spray. Try to make a pass with the auto air then a pass of air only over your same line to speed up the evaporation drying...if you have to thin it,use the extender or distilled water. When you're done,heat set the artwork work with a heat gun and let it sit 24hrs b4 you have em clear it. You should be ok,but remember t tell him if te bike sits outside the Auto Air WILL FADE,even under the clear coat. If you have more questions email or call,i'll be back at work monday and one of us will be glad to go step by step with you. Normally,i would recommend not using the auto air either,but a 'buddy' deal doesnt warrant going out and buying a bunch of basecoats if you don't use em continously or have the spray facility for them.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I wet sand with 1500 grit and apply the graphics with a urethane based product, then clear with a urethane. HOK is great but can get expensive, go to a local body shop and see if the can mix up small quantity of each color you need.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Ray, listen to Gavin about the one shot... I know alot of guys like to or do clear over one shot, after using a catalyst, however, this is definately not "correct" when dealing with automotive materials.....I never do.
Gavin, when I say degreaser, I mean paint manufacturers own products....like m600 for sikkens.
By the way, if you want to work with water based paints, you can always try water based automotive paint too.... I can say from experience that ICI water based works extremely well in the airbrush. I don't know how available it is over there though... [ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: ray hill ]
posted
There is a whole lot to learn about prep and clearing anything automotive. You've got a great start listening to these people here. If i was wetsanding it, I'd use 1000 grit (clean good before sanding), also use a grey (or is that gray?) scotch brite pad on all the places ya cant get to with sandpaper. Make sure the whold surface is dull, sort of like velvet. If you use anything coarser, when you do the airbrushing ya might end up seeing streaks where the overspray shows the sandscratches. You can eliminate that problem if you spray a coat of intermix clear before airbrushing (ask the bodyshop or paint store about that clear, its sort of like clear laquer)
Before you use the auto air on it, at least try to get a bodyshop to give you some basecoat colors , all you really need are black and white, and the 3 primary colors. Maybe they will trade for some sign work or beer Also have them spray the ureathane clear over it, if You havent done it before. Its worh a try to get some ureathane basecoats for color, or if they have it, some old laquer colors. They are a whole lot easier to control in the airbrush than water based stuff.
Good luck with the project and have fun. let me know if you need any other help.
BTW, when painting gas tanks, I brush on a ring of epoxy primer around the neck of the tank to ensure (but not guarenteed) that gas doesnt ever get under the clear and make it bubble up, sort of seals it better. There was a topic on that subject at auto art a few months back. It might be worth it to you to check it out.
[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Rick ]
Posts: 272 | From: Columbus, Ohio, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I just saw this post. Even though I don't airbrush worth a darn, (but need instruction), I have handpainted eagles on cars and harley tanks quite a few in the 80's. You just can't go wrong with one shot.The product is excellent, (I used to sell it and have used only that for over 20 years.) It is the only thing I use on everything automotive.. good luck, post your progress if you have the time! luv, Deb ps. I never cleared the one shot, because it never needed it. I haven't seen anyone have any problems when they do in the past five years, but that is purely from observing jobs done that way. I have only cleared things such as gold leaf and laquer on vinyl that was airbrushed, not the one shot directly on automotive. ( I really miss the lead being in the black, the weight and the flow had a feel of it's own! I only wish we could have that again.)
[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I'd go with basecoats myself on this type of job. Rick made some great suggestions. I think you will find it pretty easy to work with. I'm sure you would be more comfortable with One Shot and if you decide to go that way e-mail me and I'll help you there. I won't start up the "clearing over One Shot" argument again ) AutoAir is a real pain to work with, I threw away the samples I got after getting really aggravated.. Plus Z says it fades???
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Its not like you are gonna use metallics and pearls for an eagle, are ya? If the answer is no, then why use base coats when ya can get HoK striping and lettering paints which can be airbrushed as well as brushed on with a quill and for any highlights, and unlike base coat you don't have to go over it twice. I have done my share of bike sheet metal and have used everything from brushing lacquer to AutoAir and can honestly say that for clearing nothing goes on smoother then HoK with less problems then that Neandrathal oil based paint where you must wait days before the clearcoat is applied and even then, if you don't exactly know how to apply the clear coat, problems arise.
Check out my site where I speak of which materials to use for a trouble-free operation.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
I just became a Letterville resident this past summer and therefore you probably have not seen my name on here a whole lot yet. When I saw your post this morning I thought it would be a good time for me to try and offer some help.
I have specialized in high end automotive artwork for over 20 years now and I know how complicated it can be for someone to try and figure out. I don't want to discourage you from trying something new, but it would not hurt to have a test panel to experiment on first instead of a brand new gas tank.
You have been offered a wide range of suggestions here and perhaps may be more confused about what to do.
For what its worth, this is how I, and some other people that I know who specialize in automotive artwork, would do a project like this.
With the tank off the bike all hardware and fuel is removed. Wash with soap and water and then clean with an automotive degreaser. Use a grey scotchbrite to scuff around the edges and places that are hard to get at with sand paper. Wet sand the entire tank(outer surface area) with 600 to 800 grit paper until the finish is an even dullness. Be carefull not to sand through the factory clear and damage the base colour. Dry and clean again with degreaser or a milder spirit wipe.
Now here is where the conflict in opinions start. If you ever have the chance to follow the work of some of the leading name painters in Airbrush Action Magazine, I think you will see that my techniques and suggestions are in tune with what they do as well.
I do not suggest using 1 Shot if you are top coating with automotive clear, reguardless of adding a hardener to it or not. You will either put to much hardener in it and the clear won't stick, or not enough and the clear will wrinkle it like you poured paint stripper onto it.
AS far as the Createx, some people use it and get on ok. This is where I would test on a panel and have that cleared. Then cut down through the paint with a sharp knife making small squares, press masking tape onto it and give it a good pull to see if there are any addhesion problems. I do this alot when I'm testing new products.
I really feel that the best way to do an automotive job is to use automotive paint all the way through, but it is expensive to buy.
I now use the urethane base coats for all my artwork. I thin them out just like water so they flow through the airbrush real nice. You have to build them up slowly but thats just part of the technique. I use white, black, grey and a selection of transparent candy toners.
After sketching the design onto the tank in pencil, spray a coat of basecoat inner clear over it and render the design in white. (as long as thats not the background colour) Build the colours up with the toners, sharpen and detail with really thin black and work it back and forth until you have what you want. Throughout this you can keep applying the inner clear basecoat to seal and protect and at the end a light coat over top.
Now you can take it to a body shop for the final clearcoat. If it has gone past the manufacturers re-coat time you can lightly grey scotchbrite that last coat of inner basecoat clear without marking the mural. A final wipe down with a mild cleaner, blow and tack rag, then clear. At this stage I would let the tank sit for a day or so and then wet sand it again to level the design so that you cannot feel it. Then clear it again.
For the best final finish, I suggest having the clear wet sanded and polished to remove any dirt nibs, etc. This will produce a finish that is equal to the rest of the factory paint on the bike.
I know that I have dragged this out a bit, But there is alot involved in doing this type of work.
Feel free to email me if you have any questions or if you would like to view some samples of my own frustration - OOPS, I mean Artwork!!!
posted
Raymond, HOK and Coast Airbrush www.coastairbrush.com package deals specificaly designed for custom airbrushers. They also sell the entire line of HOK products in small quantities for airbrushers. I think they go as small as 1 or 2 oz containers. I would strongly recommend a video they produce on how to use this system. It will save a great deal of time. An ounce of HOK candy concentrait and a quart of HOK Intercoat clear will go a long, long way. Robin
[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: Robin Sharrard ]
[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: Robin Sharrard ]
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Robin Sharrard: Raymond, HOK and Coast Airbrush [URL=http://www.coastairbrush.com[/URL] have package deals specificaly designed for custom airbrushers. They also sell the entire line of HOK products in small quantities for airbrushers. I think they go as small as 1 or 2 oz containers. I would strongly recommend a video they produce on how to use this system. It will save a great deal of time. An ounce of HOK candy concentrait and a quart of HOK Intercoat clear will go a long, long way. Robin
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Also have them spray the ureathane clear over it, if You havent done it before. Its worh a try to get some ureathane basecoats for color, or if they have it, some old laquer colors. They are a whole lot easier to control in the airbrush than water based stuff.
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