posted
OK, bummer phone call, a new client who signed off on 4 banners last saturday called today to say I was underbid by almost 50%. He said he wanted to go with me but...
I politely told him he was already going with me & artwork was done, materials were ordered... (I delivered partial order on another job Sat. & instead of 50% on each, he asked to pay 1st one in full & wait on the 2nd. I agreed, but got him to sign my quote.)
He wasn't accusing me of gouging (sp.)or threatening to back out, just wanting to know why mine were $1000, if another shop could do it for $560. I said 13oz banners instead of 10oz, 2 mil HP vinyl instead of 3mil crap, & made with care by the owner instead of a min. wage trainee. I also promised to spend over an hour cleaning up the scans where others might put out rough edge logo on a banner.
What I want to know is do you folks think my price is fair considering drop shadows on main copy & 2 logos scanned from very bad art. (amazing how many big companies don't have, or can't get camera-ready art)
The guy agreed in the end to proceed with my doing the work, but kind of wanted a bit of a price break. I think I will offer a break for a decent sized Island Sign logo in the corner.
Also wondered if anyone here could fix me up with a vector file to help me out on this one?
Oops forgot to mention 3' x 10' banners. (thanks victor)
[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
I got a call for some RUSH fluorescent numbers for pricing cars on the lot, & when I called back my contact person I got another guy who had been assigned the task of getting bids on banners. He thought I was the guy already bidding on that. I said I wasn't but would also bid.
When I rushed down there to show fluorescent samples, and secure the numbers job, I met the manager who was happy to have my interest in his banner work, so I brought banner drawings & quote the next day (Sat.) He liked prompt service & gave me the work. (I did notice a competitor drive by twice looking at my truck out front. Waiting for me to leave?)
So anyway the competitor got his bid in 3 days later and possibly made it extra low in hopes of more work down the road. (this client just built a building & moved into the neighborhood, so good possibility of future work.
Around our neck of the woods a banner that size with that copy would go anywhere from $720 to about $950 (quantity of 4 that is). That includes the logo scans. I might give a 5% discount if he ordered all 4 at once, but I think you did just fine!
I'm getting really tired of area competitors knockin' prices down because they are slower or need work just to get the jobs. Makes our shop look like we're the ones that are playing dirty!
posted
SOUNDS like the guy that just moved in to town here he is lettering vans for $60.00 2 color 3'x3'in size!!! by acident this guy did work at the arctic cat dealer ( owners falt and did he feel bad when he found out that is wasent me)he thought I just opened a shop in town. any ways he did a 22ft long by 18" high block lettering for $150.00 (ball park) installed!! I woundnt have done it for less that 250.00 installed but gusse who just spent 3 hrs there puting up the rest of the vinyl....MEEEEE>>>LOL... his 22' runs up hill! any how the arctic cat reps were there loved my work and are going back to Meninasota(i think that how it spelled) and telling their bigger bosses to use me for all there Michigan showrooms!! when I left there had to go out garage door head was to swollen to go reg. door..lol
posted
Hey Doug - -I can unnerstand the feeling - I think your price is fair (doesn't really matter, anyway, that's the price they agreed to pay). I myself am getting kinda tired or the price chiselers. No more free layouts from this corner, either. Oh well, live & learn. p.s. I shoulda listenened more closely to some of the earlier posts here about the "givin away our work" kinda thing - - sometimes I forget just how many years of dues I've paid just to get to this humble stage of the sign game- - Carl
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
By the way - -if you signed a contract on a new bike; you think they would drop the price on said bike after the agreement? Think again. And what about the co-op they'll get back from Harley & Kawasaki? -just wonderin' . . . .
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Well, the cost of living is not the same here as in Hawaii, but (4) 3'x 10' banners in 13oz. vinyl - hems/ropes/grommets would be $500-$800. And nobody here would use cast vinyl, it would be intermediates. I know the climate is much hotter there, but why use the cast vinyls on a banner anywhere? Have you ever seen a banner last in the weather more than 3 years?
posted
$1000 for 120 square feet is $8.33 a square. A prefab 13 ounce banner is about $26, so the total material cost with premium vinyl is about $2 a square. So you are working at about 4 times your material cost.
You have a nice layout and some selling time. Your quoted price is very fair in relation to the quality of your product.
Unfortunately your client has seen only the prices, and at the moment is feeling a little "taken". This is not your fault. My guess is, he is buying one banner from you and one from the other guy. Hopefully he has not shown your art to the other guy so he can steal it.
If your luck is good, the other guys art will be as thoughtless as his pricing. If this is the case you are home free.
We used to have a "joke" in contracting that went something to the effect - The job always goes to the person who makes the biggest mistake in his pricing. Let us hope that this is not the case here.
Good Luck and keep us posted. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA
Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Truth is I wouldn't use cast on a banner except rush work w/ oddball color client picks off showroom floor, that I don't stock in calandered.
Figured my post was too much detail already so left out that my reference to cast with the client was me scrambling for a response to his question to keep me from looking like a thief.
Yes cost of living & almost all prices are higher here then average. $5.00/sq.ft. is pretty much a standard around for 1-color, or sometimes 2 but not double coverage(shadows), and not special order colors w/ 2-color logos incl. scans, so a quote below $600 on this job shocked me.
Thanks Victor, Karrie, Glenn, & Carl.
Glenn, good luck with the Arctic Fat-Cats! (big boss)
[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
Doug, check out www.logotypes.ru for the harley and kawasaki logos in vector format, they have both I know cause I downloaded them from that site when I needed them.
The price sounds right to me.
I could conceivably understand the price difference though...
$60 for 13oz banner $40 for two colors of intermediate vinyl at full coverage.
$100 for materials with a 2X markup (cheap cheap, I normally use a minimum of 300% to cover materials, restocking, shipping and phone time with suppliers) = $200
So if the other guy bid $560 that leaves $360 for labor or 6 hours of labor at my rate.
So, yeah that guy can do the banners at that price but he's not making enough money on it that he can continue to actually run a business and support his household. Out of that $560 he actually gets to pocket what, $100 that came just from materials markup.. if he even marked them up that much!
Hey, you can always pretend to be a customer and go to the competition to check out his work.. then actually buy the junky lookin stuff and use it in YOUR showroom as samples of what your customer will NOT receive when they do business with you.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I like Mikes style - -show them the crap their sign WON'T BE !!!
Signs around here (DeSoto Co., MS) are generally lacking in the install dept. - - -they dig them holes 'bout 15 inches deep & expect them to stay straight! Where are the sign police whem u need 'um????
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms
Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Hey all, Thanks for all the speedy replies. I will see the client tomorrow, & make some concessions in the interest of repeat business, although to him it will be offered in exchange for my name on banner (bigger then the usual 2" tag) & intermediate vinyl.
Glad to hear support for decent mark-ups. I anticipate $150 in material & freight, & figured to spend over an hour on scan clean-ups. There's some room to try keeping this guy happy, since it is a largenew local business right up the street.
I was fortunate enough to have 2 letterville neighbors supply me with vector art. Thanks guys for that, and all for feedback.
posted
We have done logo signs for two Harley dealers on and off again for years. I don't think there is a problem as long as you are working on behalf of a Harley dealer. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Point taken Laura. I don't want to send that message, but since I did settle for only a signed estimate instead of a deposit, & I ordered material I didn't want to risk a total flake situation. Also I mentioned my price reduction only as a sponsorship advertising arrangement. I think the banners will reach the market that I am interested in reaching so it could pay off more then the amount lost by the reduced price. In the future if they expect charity I will find out before I order goods, & the other sign guy can have it.
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