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Hey, fellow heads.... big (maybe) ?... I've done dozens of magnetics for local company trucks with no problems. Out of the blue, a very good customer came in with what was left of a magnetic that took he and another man to peel off the side of the truck (thankfully, it didn't remove any enamel from the door!). The company is meticulous about their trucks. He did say that he runs it through the car wash (often), w/o the mags on, and sometimes uses the power wax application. When finished, he puts the mags back on. OK, it's REALLY hot here in the summer and I was wondering if the mag forms a bond w/ the wax and/or the water as it dries. I spoke w/ my supplier and they spoke w/ the manufacturer who said "yes" it very well could create a bond (that even putting the mags back on before completely air dry could do the same same). They (the mfg.) were interested enough to say they would like to test a sample of remaining mag... that was last week- now I can't get my supplier to return my voice mail. I made a new set for the customer and, of course, I won't bill him- but I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem. This is a very small community and I pride myself in my work- obviously I can't afford to lose even 1 unhappy client. I do tell my customers to clean the mag backs- that even a grain of dirt/ dust can cause it to look bubbled- and to make sure the doors are clean. This company has a fleet of trucks and he's the only one that has shown a problem. My supplier says that it is not my fault in any way but.... I still have to work w/ (and need to keep) this customer. PS- Why can't we get the suppliers to make up a mfg's list of disclaimers, care recommendations, proper maintenance, etc. for mags?
-------------------- Linda Schmidt Vital D'Signs Greers Ferry, AR signlady@ozarkisp.net Posts: 160 | From: Greers Ferry, AR | Registered: Sep 2001
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Why did you replace the signs? The fault was clearly the customer's if you told him to make sure the sign and vehicle were clean and dry. Mags are a pain. If the customer has a fleet of trucks they should have them lettered, not use magnetics. I steer more customers away from using magnetics because they think they need them when they don't.
Tell them again to make sure both the vehicle and sign are clean and dry before putting them on, and take the opportunity to talk them into lettering their trucks right.
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Linda..I am with Brad and Linda Silver Eagle on this too. I do make magnetic signs for customers, as probaly most of us do. My advice to customers BEFORE even starting to make them is.." I do NOT guarantee magnetic signs in any way!!! I don't guarantee they won't be stolen, fall off, destroy the paint, NO GUARANTEES AT ALL"
Besides, magnetic signs are MORE expensive than the same size lettering directly on the vehicle's surface. Doesn't matter if you are using paint or vinyl, the extra cost of the magnetic sheet adds to the overall cost of the job!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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Once this superadhesionproblem happened with a set of mags I made and I don't remember how it got resolved. I'm sure I replaced them and went on with it. I'm guessing there may have been a stretch on the roll that simply was more "powerful". I think a disclaimer up front is a good idea. Here lots of vehicles want to go on the Blue Ridge Parkway and they don't allow lettered vehicles.....
If anyone asks me if they fall off, I say I use the highest power rating sheeting made, and still can't guarantee it. Everyone gets a sheet of how to take care of them and how to prep the car. If necessary I tell them the following story about how, in the early years, I was ingeniously duped by a guy from the suburbs, who came in four or five times and bitched about losing the mags right off the truck, saw them flying off in the rear view mirror, he did. He accused me of shortchanging him with inferior material and he rattled my cage.
I replaced mag after mag, til one day I said this is the last time, I don't care if it falls off in full view as you leave my parking lot.
Then one day I drove to the suburbs, for some reason, and accidentally passed his place where there were a number of vehicles, all beautifully appointed with magnetics I had made on the doors. My one set had outfitted all of them.
SOB
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com
Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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There are many brands of magnetic. We have tried many and the brand we use has a brochure with every roll telling about the care and use of the magnetic signs. We give a copy of this to our customers with every magnetic sign that goes out the door. This way were covered when they dont take care of them..Now this is very important..After cleaning the signs and truck..they need to be DRY before you reapply them and this includes the truck.
-------------------- Kevin L. Kleinhans Alma Signs (Signs Be Me) Alma, Michigan Posts: 139 | From: Alma, MI USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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This post is very interesting to me. Just night before last I received news that one of my mags stuck to a truck and tore in the process of removing it. I am fortunate in that it was not addressed to me as a complaint, but rather a question. "Why did this happen?" I also give a care sheet with every set of mags. Thanks to the advice received from this BB.
Louisiana is hot and humid, therefore I asked if they had been removed and cleaned periodically. The answer was, "not really". I really beleive that was the problem.
I don't really like mags because they usually look cheap. But they do have a place in advertising such as small business when the cust. uses a private vehicle. I enjoy making them and hand cutting them. However, I never sell them as my choice of giving the customer what is in his best interest. Each set is sold "as is" and I remind them that they are not getting their money's worth as with direct lettering on a vehicle.
I think you were probably right in replacing it. Not because you were liable, but because you are in a small community and you have pride. Mags are cheaper to replace than a good customer. Bad news travels fast in rural areas!
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist.
Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Most of the magnetic material manufacturers do have flyers with maintenance hints and precautions. We coppied one of these and put our name on it and staple it to every invoice for magnetic sign orders. One of the things they recommend is to apply a quality paste wax to both the door and the back of the sign, and also to never apply the sign to a wet vehicle and allow it in the sun. If the wax solves your problem, you can buy my lunch some day.
[ October 07, 2001: Message edited by: Rick Sacks ]
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have two sets at the shop with pictures of the vehicles we peeled them off of...literally in peices...the customers admitted to washing the trucks with the magnetics on and never taking them off even though I told them to, they didn't think I was serious... Our guarentee...never drive over 20mph and you shouldn't have a problem!
Dave
-------------------- Dave Ginley Ace of Signs Selinsgrove, Pa. www.aceofsigns.com
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Magnetics seem to have more drawbacks than advantages IMHO. We all know how easy they are to tear, especially in cold weather, when they tend to get brittle.
Do any of the manufacturers of this material do anything in the way of embedding a cloth or fiber in this stuff that would make it more resistant to ripping apart?
It just seems this is one of those products that turned up years ago, and hasen't been improved since.
Others thoughts?
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I'm with Dave Grundy... I don't know why people think magnetics gotta be cheaper than vinyl or paint lettering directly on the doors..
You use the same design and layout talents yet it takes MORE materials and even MORE labor to produce them, yet they have to be cheaper?
I think the ability to remove and reapply them is a novelty and should only increase the value of the signage!
I recently had a prospective customer choke on my price quote to do her van doors (which was a cheap-a$$ price on a 4 color layout in the first place) so she asked about magnetics. I told her no-way no-how was she going to get the same layout any cheaper, and there wouldn't be any guarantees on the magnetics actually staying on the vehicle or damaging the paint.
OOPS! sorry about bending the topic a little.. looks like the question was already answered though.. guess now we can make this the "Anti-Magnetic Thread"..
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Gosh- all you HEADS! Thanks for the input. Like you, I try to talk my customers out of mags but many upgrade vehicles constantly and in a lot of cases the car/van/truck is also for personal use. I'm hoping one of you will e-mail the mfg. cautions so I can print it and pass it on to my customers- just telling them is apparently falling on deaf ears- and frankly, I'm not sure what the cautions are! I've had his new set ready for over a week now but I'm hesitant to take them to him w/o a disclaimer. In light of what's happening in the world at this moment my problem is miniscule but it helps to hang together- doesn't it? THANKS, FRIENDS
-------------------- Linda Schmidt Vital D'Signs Greers Ferry, AR signlady@ozarkisp.net Posts: 160 | From: Greers Ferry, AR | Registered: Sep 2001
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Here's one for you. I had a customer bring the magnetics back because they did not stick...told me the magnetic was bad. Turns out the truck(a large hauler) they put them on has plastic doors. I should have known somehow.
I tell people to wax the mag and the door and to move them around from time to time.
-------------------- Garrick Crocker Absolute Signs and Printing 20372 E. Pennsylvania Ave, Suite G Dunnellon, FL 34432 352-489-2407 asap@digitalusa.net
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Every time a vehicle gets repainted, the film thickness separating the metal from the magnet is increased, thereby reducing its effectiveness. The manufacturers of the magnetics recommend only using on factory finnishes for that reason.
A few years back we made some for an electrical contractor without seeing the van first. After some time, I saw this van on a jobsite. It was an old telephone company service van, that had those large reflective decals on the doors and wide stripes down the sides. This guy had painted the van with latex house paint and an airless sprayer. There were these rust spots that had turned into blisters under the paint also. The magnetics were held in place with clear silicone adhesive. This guy was so pleased with his solutions that when we spoke, he ordered another one to glue on the back!
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
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