posted
Hi, About 6 months ago I made a roller blended name on enamel receptive clear with 1 Shot and layered it over a contoured black piece of vinyl. I waited aboout 24 hrs. to let the paint dry before applying and putting it on the doors of a new white pickup. The customer recently stopped in to show me how the paint was chipping from the edges. Bummer! I did this to 3 trucks and at this point I don't know if it's happening on the others. The worst part of this story though is when I took off the first vinyl job the door had an orange image of the name on it that would not come off with Super-Solve! He took it to the autobody shop and they managed to carefully sand and compound buff the image off to the satisfaction of my client. He declined to have me pay for it. Very nice guy! I'll not charge him for the new copy I made from Rainbow blended vinyl of course. I guess I should have let the paint dry longer first.( days-weeks?) Stained thru 4mil. of vinyl! The temps here are a dry 100 degrees in summer. I'm now afraid of painting on vinyl. Any comments would be appreciated.
Was the vinyl 4mils thick? If so, it sounds like you used some sort of calendared vinyl. Also, did you use any sort of prep to act as a barrier between the paint and the vinyl?
If you are using enamel on vinyl, a barrier is a must. Plastitizers leach to the surface and get between the vinyl and the paint as the vinyl ages. A barrier is a must. OneShot makes one that has worked well for me. The other option is to use a screen printer's vinyl ink. It doesn't require a barrier coating.
The only enamel receptive that I've used is the Gerber brand, only because that's all the suppliers I deal with handle. Never had a problem. Is it true that the paint is chipping from the vinyl and the adhesive is still intact? Did the enamel dry in a normal time frame? If so, then I'd suspect some contamination on the vinyl or residual brush oil leeching into the enamel.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
posted
Hi, Glen, I used 2 layers of 2ml. cast vinyl- one being enamel receptive clear- both by Gregory. I hav'nt heard that it should have a barrier but I'll check on the 1 shot product. Hopefully, it will keep the paint from chipping on the edges and prevent migration of pigment through 4mill of vinyl!
[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: jerry jaran ]
[ October 01, 2001: Message edited by: jerry jaran ]
Now is the time you need to experiment with 100% acrylic latex enamel paints for that work. I think you will be surprised at how well they hold up. They are water base and dry fast. On outdoor signs, the flat 100% acrylic latex can reach 12 years in age and beyond, used on wood signs, brick walls, and metal buildings. It sticks well to vinyl banners too.
So give it try on your vinyl as well, splatter a design on a 6 foot sheet of vinyl, cut letters out of it, place them on your truck, and another set on a sheet of aluminum and place it in direct sunlight for a few months.
posted
Hi, I'll check out the acrylic paint. Since the one shot went through 4mil. of vinyl I wonder if an acrylic barrier would work with oil base paint? One more layer of plastic to soak through? Also, Dave, are you talking about house paint or Deka or 1 Shot acrylic? I recall using some latex paint on white vinyl shower board. When I pulled the mask most of the latex pulled away too. My mistake may have been to let it dry before pulling.
[ October 01, 2001: Message edited by: jerry jaran ]
posted
Bill has had a lot of success with the House of Color striping paint on vinyl. There was a little "learning time" to using it but it wears like iron! He has been striping with it and using it on top of HIGH PERFORMANCE vinyl and we have been really pleased with it!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
I just wanted to make sure. I had never heard of a 4mil thick enamel receptive vinyl before. That was what was kind of throwing me off.
Now that I've re-read my post, I see that I wasn't clear about my train of thought
I've also had a problem with enamel paints bleeding though vinyl, too - including enamel receptives. I've used Frog Juice and One Shot vinyl primer and that seems to have prevented the bleed.
Also, based on problems I've had in the past, the enamel seems to chip or flake off where the vinyl has gone over a curve. The only thing I can figure is that the vinyl is shrinking a bit and the enamel isn't moving. I've mixed some flex agent into the paint and that seems to have helped.
posted
Hi, I hope some are still looking at this post as it is very important for us who want to paint blends on so called enamel receptive clear vinyl. I buy mine at Gregory Inc. and it's a 3M product # 7725-114. It is designated enamel receptive. IT IS NOT! I talked to 3M today and they admitted that it is not. Some mixup! It is 2mil cast vinyl for use in digital printing with their inks and not for paint! Why it was misdesignated is unclear. They make for Gerber a coated vinyl for paint and printing on. #200 and 225. So, Glen, this is the reason paint chips off. I hope to get a tip into Signcraft about this so more people can be warned.
posted
Hi,Jerry. I've been using Gerber's "Enamel Receptive Clear" for a couple of years. The product no. is 225 clr/enamel rcptv.Do not use any other vinyl if you want to use "One-Shot", unless you are going to prime it first(frog juice or vinyl primer)first. I clean the area with "Rapid Tac's" Rapid Prep,and plot it with a pen,followed by cutting. I roller or brush the one shot on.Wait about 15-20 min.& airbrush while the background is tacky. If you use this product & still have trouble, you might want to clear the edges. PS, I have painted on this material & within 2 hours have applied dry with no problems. "Keep paintin"
posted
Call me crazy, call me old fashioned. Anybody ever think of grabbing a brush and lettering the truck door? I know it's not a very popular concept,buuuuutttttttt. Maybe an idea who's time has come.
Pretty much what everyone else has said. I have not tried to paint on clear, choosing instead to start with 'most any color vinyl, plotting it out, frog juice, rough in around the cut lines with a contrasting stabilo so I can see where I am going, air brushing with Createx auto-air and frog juice again, and then weed. Heat set between steps. Apply wet or dry, but either way, soak the application tape before removal-- it may prevent lifting. So far, have not had the problems you refer to. Good luck.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic