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i've been spending my "free" (ie, slack) time trying to improve my lettering/painting skills. i've decided that i don't know much about anything, and especially about using a mahl stick. i've got one of those screw-together aluminum ones, and i'm suspecting that it is 1) too short 2) too light/bouncy/springy 3) a little bent (it rolls funny) Does anybody here use that kind? All the folks i remember seeing using a stick have wooden ones (with masking tape on the end). should i go get myself a dowel and toss out the aluminum thing? does it even matter? am i using to much pressure?
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Dude.....I use an aluminum arrow wrapped with enough tape on the end to make the ball. I like using arrows because of how light they are. If you letter all day with one you don't notice as much fatigue in the back. Grip a 3 oz. dixie cup between the thumb and forefinger and run the mahlstick between the second and third fingers. A light grip is preferred. Now Practice.
-------------------- Terry Teague James River Signs Reeds Spring, MO tlteague@tri-lakes.net Posts: 434 | From: Reeds Spring | Registered: May 1999
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Hey Scooter!!! too bad you didn't ask that one at the meet!!!!
Once I got the hang of mahlsticking it (thankyou Mr. Henry) I found it was a BIG help in learning lettering, and details on a sign or mural (less sticky stuff all over the heel of my hand!)
Then there are those who have thier OWN unique way of using a mahlstick.....
posted
I always found those screw together mahlsticks come apart in no time. These days I use a Micky Mouse pool cue (also "borrowed" from the kids toy box) with a small bit of rag balled on the end and held on with an elastic band. When one of the girls decides its time to reposess the cue as sometimes happens, I wander out to the bamboo grove behind the garage and cut a piece off with the hacksaw. I've never found the weight to be a problem but I do like a longer mahly, definitley longer than the screw together ones. David
-------------------- David Fisher D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services Brisbane Australia da_pmf@yahoo.com Trying out a new tag: "Parents are the bones on which children cut their teeth Peter Ustinov Posts: 1450 | From: Brisbane Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Try to remember Scooter the mahl stick aint a crutch so don't lean on it like it is one.It is only to keep you off the surface, the less weight you apply the better.
When anyone just starts lettering (whether they use a mahl stick or not)nearly all have a tendancy to be heavy handed.
Here's some guaranteed tips for success lettering...
1- Breathe...holding your breath will guarantee fatigue and shakey work...make an effort to breathe and notice you are breathing and practice it as much as practicing your lettering.
2-Learn to roll your brush between your first and second fingers. It will cut way back on the amount you are having to manipulate your wrist to make turns and terminal ends.
3-Hold your brush with as little pressure as you can and not drop it.
4-Relax
5-Leave the mahl stick alone til you learn to handle the brush "hand over hand"...(it's hard enough to master the brush)
6-When you think yer ready for a mahl stick...look me up! Or look up Terry teague...he's been "beatin the boards" with one fer years.
All these things seem difficult...but after years of lettering you will find that all of them come naturally after a while...yet... for some reason no one tells you these things when you first start lettering.
Hope some of this helps..."werks fer me, it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla. jumpers@itlnet.net
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If you can't steal toys from the kids, go down to the hardware store and pick up a few of those wooden dowels. I also like the 7/16" dia. You can also buy some of those rubber table leg tips to slide on the end... just cover with cloth if you need more "slide". All this costs just a few bucks.
After a while you will train your hands and arms to work together. I try not to use it all of the time but as a left handed guy I find that there are some situations where it really helps.
If you are left handed, use only the left handed mahl sticks.
Good luck.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322
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I think a Mahl Stick is a tool used to collect bad From deadbeat sign customers. You beat em with it.
I have one but I am far from mastering it, hell i havent mastered the brushes yet, someday ill be postin how it works maybe.
Keep Maulin!!!
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go."
Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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i use a 1/2" maple dowel that i hand sanded, primed, and painted. i put a rubber tip on one end and a plastic cap on the other. i cut mine to 36" in length.
harrison todd was the one that taught me how to use a mahl stick. i learned to letter using the hand over method. i prefer to use a mahl stick but it is good to have experience doing the other for some situations.
have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter
Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Yes...all the comments are right. It was difficult to learn to use a mahl stick...a lot of pratice helps. Monte's and Terry's advice is right on....."Breathe"
Mine is a stainless steel tube. It is 3/8"thick and 42" long. I have a small rubber cap on the end. (Automotive rubber cap). I epoxyed (sp?) an eye hook on the other end to hang it on the wall. I like the longer length because you can reach out and brace it on odd things...like the front tire when you are lettering a truck door....you get the idea. I prefer to use a pallete when lettering..I can shape my brush a lot easier than on the edge of a cup....but I do use both.
I hope everyones suggestions help...remember "BREATHE" and "PRACTICE"
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun"
Posts: 1002 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Some techniques are easyer shown than explained with words.GOOD reason to attend a "live" letterhead meet!The mahl-stick is an important tool to be used when need by any and all that hand letter.Once you master the twisting & turning of the brush for correct starting and stopping points.The in between stroke can be accomplished quickly and effectively with the use of a mahl-stick. To answer your question lace brush hand lightly 3/4 of the distance from the ball end.PUSH stick holding hand towards substrate in the general direction of where your letter is layed out.START down stroke while touching,twisting,turning end of brush to apply paint.MOVE stick down the distance of the letter highth.FINISH end of letter by way of moving stick away from the substrate all the while twisting and turning brush
he he he You see,I told you it is a lot easyer to watch someone do this than it is to read! Good Luck with your practice,practice,practice
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The traditional mahl stick here is wood. some are sectioned and fit together with a brass ferrule, so that they will fit into your sign kit.They were built up with cotton wool wadding on the end which was then covered with chamois leather which was whipped on to form a neat ball.The ball on the end being of a diameter to keep the stick parallel to the board when resting yhe knuckles on it.----- now I'll have to go into the description of a left handed one. I don't agree that the mahl stick is only used to rest the hand on. It is used in many ways, not least of which is using the fingers against it much in the way that a striper uses his fingers along a moulding on a panel.and using it like a compass on big lettering.
Posts: 108 | From: Preston, Lancashire, England | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
i've been holding my breath all day waiting to see what people's comments were. now i can breathe...
thanks everybody -- great advice (as always)! (i knew there would be some opinions about this question). i guess if i need a left-handed stick the ball goes on the other end? i'll make one of each, just in case...
i didn't realize that the diameter of the ball helps keep the knuckles from dragging... that makes a lot of sense.
i'm 6-3, and 230 pounds, so the little screw together aluminum stick just felt like the wrong size, weight and everything. i'll go get a 4' dowel.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Dave Hodge makes a good point...in fact the reason my mahl stick is 52" long is due to the fact that when I was taught to use it I worked in a shop where we did a lot of charts that called for a lot of line work both verticle and hoizontal. All our benches were 48" surfaces so the extra length meant you could pull a line the full length of the stick and cover the entire 48" of material without ever lifting the stick.(try loading a liner with enough paint to do line that long and not drip)Sometimes I do it just for the hell of it to see if I still can.
I still can!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla. jumpers@itlnet.net
posted
One thing that wasn't mentioned is when working outside in the cold weather a metal mahl stick will help you get real cold quicker. The metal gets cold and transfers it to your body. They also have a habit of coming loose while you are working. Wood is your best bet or the latest is the fibreglas that Don King sells out of Seattle, Wash. It is the best mahl stick I have used in many years.The next step is to learn to work with a palet outfitted with a paint cup and an empty gold leaf book to palet your brush and you will not have to keep bending down to dip into your paint. (Don't be a dipper).
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I use 2 Mahl sticks, 1 @ 30", 1 @ 36" both are 3/8" dowel and have a Jacks ball on the end, dipped in Plasti Dip to keep them from sliding. Wrapping the ball end in chamois is also to keep it from sliding. I have one of those aluminum screw-together ones that I keep around just for the shucks of it, but they do get loose - and the push-together ones are worthless. But they fit in the kit, in case I forget to bring a real one, and I sometimes do. Dang! They do get cold on your hands! A few years ago somebody was selling a double barrelled Mahl stick - but it was good to use as a bridge, had a 5 sided rubber star at each end for position. Wish I'd bought one. Scooter, I wish this had come up at Petaluma...
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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Much talk of non slip tips on mahl sticks. Doesnt anyone else slide their mahly for long straight lines, particularly vertical ones? David
-------------------- David Fisher D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services Brisbane Australia da_pmf@yahoo.com Trying out a new tag: "Parents are the bones on which children cut their teeth Peter Ustinov Posts: 1450 | From: Brisbane Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
well, the reason i brought the topic up was cuz i saw a few of you using sticks up in Petaluma... so i was practicing at home with mine and "something didn't seem right". imy aluminum screw-together one didn't look like the sticks others were using.
i've got two coats of FrogJuice on a 48" mapel dowel now, and put the first pinstripes along it. i'll finish the other stripes (the ones on the "bottom") tomorrow and give it another coat of Juice before i'm ready to give it a test. i decided to make a nice one. (heck, i was reading "Harry Potter" and i decided to make mine more of a "magic wand" with some decoration). it was fun striping it.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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My Favorite mahl stick is made of wood dowell 36" with a solid rubber ball drilled a hole in it on my drill press. and I wrap it with a paper towel if I want it to slide.Most times I use it plain. I also use those aluminum ones in my kit for a travel job. and I have one for show cards that is made of an aluminum gun cleaning rod with a rubber ball and cloth wrapped on it with a rubber band to hold it. I seldom use that one anymore as I mostly print my cards nowadays. I use the mahl stick when ever I am lettering, unless it is cramped quarters, or the letters are three ft tall LOL. I never painted a letter without one or at least my braced arms in tight spots. I use it to make big circle strokes by applying pressure in the middle and using the ball for a pivot. I use the edge of it as a rule to run my fingers along for long straight strokes. I use it to scratch my back when mosquitoes bite me, and to crown my help when they need it LOL I like to also hold my paint in a small cup or a baby food jar, I hold it in my thumb and forefinger, with the mahl stick gripped in the other three fingers loosely, place it to right of the work so when you rest your hand on it lightly it will be above the surface of your work and give you more flexibility with your brush. Try it you'll like it. Bill
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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