recently I've asked about some materials that have aggressive adhesives.
I've decided before I buy such materials, I need to do some testing on the materials I use already.
My product of choice to this point has been signwarehouse.com's "house brand" of Enduragloss films. Great prices, looks great, easy to work with and it's tougher to tear than the rest. The only drawback I thought I would deal with is the fact that it's repositionable for up to two years, thinking that the adhesive may not be aggressive enough.
The Objective: Test adhesion of graphics for extreme conditions encountered in jetski racing.
Requirements: Graphics must hold up to submersion in water, water pressure created by movement of the craft, and occassional collisions with other watercraft.
The Sample: Black Enduragloss 2mil Prem. Cast vinyl, Fuscia Enduragloss-thickness and quality level under question. The Fuscia material also featured airbrush art done with waterbased acrylics and coated with Frog Juice.
The Test: Both samples were applied to the hull of one of my personal watercrafts setup for racing. The hull was cleaned then prepped with RapidPrep before application. The samples were applied dry and I had intentionally installed them with wrinkles to add resistance in the water. The Fuscia material was applied approximately 12 hours before the test, the black was applied AT THE BEACH imediately before putting the craft in the water.
Both samples were placed in symmetrical locations on the underside of the hull to ensure both received similar abuse. Note: this location under the hull is in full contact with the water at all speeds.
The fuscia sample wasted no time in peeling back. Within 5 minutes the front edge of the sample had started to peel up. The black sample was tight as could be.
20 minutes of intense riding later, the fuscia sample had peeled back to the half-way area while the black remained perfect. At this point I decided to remove the fuscia sample as to not contaminate our pristine lake with scraps of vinyl if it should happen to fall off on its own in the water.
Every ten minutes I stopped to check the condition of the black sample and it remained fully adhered to the hull.
At the one hour point, a few of the local professional racers came down to practice and tune their own watercrafts. Upon helping them set up a quick buouy race course I joined their practice racing again, stopping every ten minutes to check the condition of the sample. Perfect, every time.
The Pro guys were curious why I was dropping out and looking at my hull every so often so I showed them the sample. =) They were pretty stunned to see that it was holding up.
Finally, after four hours of hard riding I was becoming quite fatigued yet the vinyl apparently wasn't faultering. It was still in perfect condition.
Now, I know this is hardly a long-term test which would really test the durability, but with jetski racers they are quite used to changing graphics several times within one season because of tearing or lifting.
It seems as though my current materials are adequate enough at least for one full weekend of practice and racing. Besides that, no one puts graphics on the underside of their craft where they cant even be seen. =)
Now back to the Fuscia. Earlier I mentioned the quality/thickness was still in question. I could have sworn I bought Hi-Perf 2mil Fuscia but if that was the case, I would tend to believe it should have lasted much longer considering the life of the black sample. However, the actual thickness of the material feels much the same as the 2mil black so at least right now I am at a loss. =)
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike, your test was not valid. Example: Avery 2mil film requires 72 hours at 70 degrees to achieve a full cure. If you didn't allow a cure period for an acrylic premium adhesive, then you have no valid basis for the test. I understand your zealousness, but any 2 mil premium film as, Arlon, 3M, White, Avery will meet the criteria for use on jet aircraft leading edges when properly heat sealed and cured. I think you're searching for something that's already there in front of you. I'm not speaking off the wall, as I've been in the film business for 26 years now. I spent 3 months at Arlon back in 1983 working closely with the lab in film testing for premium films. I then remained with them for two years running the field application program, among which were the "aircraft leading edge" tests. Your application is not as severe as the aircraft applications, so I think you're safe using a 2 mil premium product from one of the aforementioned manufacturers.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
I would have to agree with Pierre. I have lettered numerous single engine, turbo props and lear jet planes and the stuff just plain sticks. I have also done a few jet skis ( a few guys from here are heading your way soon for the races) and don't have any problems with them falling off. I would never guarantee something that was involved in a collision, if someone thinks there should be a guarantee on that they are nuts!
------------------ Greg Gulliford aka MetroDude Metro Signs and Banners 1403 N. Greene St. #1 Spokane, WA 99202 509-536-9452
mail@metrosignsandbanners.com
Posts: 576 | From: Spokane, WA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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HOWEVER, it's pretty unrealistic to think that any serious jetski racer is going to let his boat sit and wait 3 days for full adhesion before dumping it in the water and giving it hell in practice or tuning. That's what would be preferred but realistically that's not what happens. Hell, even *I* dont do that and I know about the time required for full adhesion.
I dont do aircraft, I do watercraft and in MY world this test is absolutely valid. It proves that when I attend races and make graphics on the spot, they will hold up until the weekend is over which is all the racers are really concerned about. I did make mention this test was geared towards racers and not the everyday schmoe with a jetski.
It's not their money paying for it anyways, it's their sponsor's. =)
Now, for the folks looking for a graphics kit just cause they want one, sure they can stand to wait for adhesion to kick in.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike,in reading your post I noticed one statement on how you cleaned the ski. My confusion is; you state"I cleaned the surface, then preped it with Rapid Prep". My question is,what did you clean the ski with before cleaning with RapidPrep,and why? Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Merlin, OR
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Wheeeew boy I think we have a good post here!! yeah sounds like signwarehouse.com should kick you down a few rolls of their enduragloss to do other experiments with. From what you did is give an actual test and kept notes on what your objective was. I think you did great!
Good Test spots for brutalness and adhesion. I really don't know about either one of the products, or what the specs state, but sometimes the customer will want it "right now." $o we give it to them right now. but in your case you did your own test. to eliminate return shot problems.
My curiousity would be what if you used your Black Prem. 2 mil cast vinyl with an airbrush design or what ever you used and clear coated it with the "Frog Juice" and let it set for an hour or two. then do another one with say... krylon, then Frog it and do then do your test again. When you have that time. Maybe the fuscia material is the culprit with or with out the water base airbrush design
------------------ FranCisco Vargas aka: Cisco aka:Traveling Millennium Sign Artist http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
If I'm reading this correctly, Mike is wanting something that will last a week and then remove easily, and Pierre is looking for something that will last years.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Roger, guess what I should have said was "I knocked off the majority of the dirt and mud with water then finished the job up with RapidPrep".. =) I just wanted to conserve the RapidPrep, figured water was fine to knock off the bulk. The beaches here are all accessible by vehicle, meaning you just drive right down the beach to where you want to go, then leave the trailer and tow vehicle right there in the water while you ride. 'Skis pick up quite a bit of dust kicked up from the truck/trailer tires when leaving since the ski is wet and the whole road is dirt/rock.
Cisco, I've been thinkin about crawlin underneath the jetski and slapping some airbrushing on that black sample that's left. The airbrushing on the other sample hardly even got tested because the fuscia (also Enduragloss) released. But, the paint did adhere for the duration and usually I cant damage the paint by hand without destroying the vinyl. Good suggestion on testing Krylon, I think I'll have to do that!
Rick, one full racing season would be great for me!.. that's basically from February to October. If it lasts longer, hey that's great because so far the only graphics for skis that last that long in an abusive environment are the OEM graphics, which no racer I've ever seen keeps the factory graphics on their boats. =)
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike...I'm not a huge fan of FJ but I do quite a bit of airbrushing on vinyl. I use automotive basecoat/clearcoat. When weeding the vinyl after the clearcoat has set up for a couple of hours the vinyl is the consistency of a roasted marshmallow. I couldn't even think about pre-masking until after an overnight cure. I am wondering if maybe the FJ softened the vinyl and affected the adhesive, seeing as it was such a rush experiment? I know that doesn't help you when you are doing graphics "on-site" and for immediate installation but it might explain why the airbrushed and coated vinyl failed when the untreated vinyl didn't?
------------------ Dave Grundy shop#340 AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley "A PROUD $ supporter of the website"
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Mike,just clean with the Rapid Tac or Rapid Tac ll, dosn't sound like you have a lot of wax or other residue to remove from the surfase of the ski ! this can give you a better instant bond ! Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Merlin, OR
That's a good point. I know sometimes when I lay the FJ on heavy in an area that isnt covered with paint, the vinyl wrinkles sometimes. Normally I wont be airbushing graphics on the spot, I'll save that for when I have my garage to work in. That part isnt too big of an issue.
Roger, nope the hull NEVER gets waxed. There's no point in waxing my hull because of the condition of most of it, and some racers will even say it hinders performance. I'm not too quick to buy that one but it gives me a reason not to worry about the hull between repairs and all the sanding goin on.. =)
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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