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Morning, all, To borrow from the Bard, methinks someone doth protest too much. I don't want this to get down to a personal level, but Ron, I have to wonder how much you endeared yourself to your customer by holding the car hostage overnight, and whether that soul was ever a repeat customer. As far as MBAs as a group (aka as bean counters and/or suits) I would rank them right down there with politicians, used car salesmen, and efficiency experts. Most of us have had experiences, either directly or indirectly having to do with bean counters. For instance the health care field, HMOs, the insurance industry, manufacturing, (can we cut the quality just a tiny bit, save a few cents on each unit and boost the bottom line?) and a whole raft of other areas that I haven't thought of yet. In all of these areas it is the bottom line of the company or industry that seems to be the primary consideration, and the consumer, or patient, or whatever gets the well known and always popular shaft. I know, I have drifted off the original topic, but I also feel that some of these things needed to be said. Apologies in advance if I have offended, it is not my intent.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Jackson, I agree about moving on & accepting the loss & LEARNING, But I've read countless stories about people this has happened to year after year & even one guy who has a large group of signs he made & never got paid for on his showroom floor. He shows these to people who want credit. Question why does it take more than one time of getting stiffed before you make a change? I'm really not angry, I'm actually very happy life is great business is greater. But I've been reading about this problem so long over & over. I guess I just snapped & don't understand why people let this happen over & over to them. On a grander scale most of my life has been working for The Man & solving why a business is losing money & to many man hours to be losing money. My job was to fix it & do it quickly & I was very good at it. The only bad part was having to fire probably hundreds of people who really needed a job but didn't want to work hard enough to keep it. I actually meant to help, helping others has been my job for so long old habits are hard to break. You said I had to be right well I didn't mean to come across as arrogant but my advice was solid. My only intention was to help others see it doesn't have to be that way (losing money) It really irritates me when I read what some sign makers let happen to them when they have the power to stop it. This may sound like a negative attitude but there are very many people (customers) whose only mission in life is to get something for free, it's a power thing with them they have to be incharge,learned this in my psychology class studying why people have to rip others off like rape it's about power & ripping people off makes them feel in charge. Like the guy who didn't want to pay for his boat lettering, but when he knew he was going to have to do it he deducted $50.00 which made him feel he was still in charge & that's very important to people like that. So in short yes it does make me angry to read about these petty people who get over on fellow sign makers these people are the scum of the earth & that's why I'm so determined not to let them get scum on me meaning (not to let them take my money) So I do go to drastic measures to avoid this, but the drastic measures WORK!So if I offended anyone, sorry that was not my intention, I just want fellow Sign Makers to say no to rip off customers. PS: Bill the customer owed me $240.00 would you have let him just leave? If he resents me wanting the money I worked for I don't want his repeat business.Something I didn't mention was I told him to make the check payable to me & I would run cash it the bank was only a mile away but he didn't want to do that WHY I'm about 100% sure there was no money in the bank he wanted to write me a worthless check,& brag about his great new FREE tint job.Not going to happen I refuse to be anyone's victim. Mark,your partly right I was taught about following policies,that's why you set them they keep things running as they should be,but they have to be followed.How many of you have worked for large companies? I bet they were very strick on following company policies. You most likely even got a handbook on following policies.Why do you think there are so strict about these policies,because they keep order, they make the whole shabang work.If your going to set policies you have to follow them every minute of the day,every customer,no exceptions.
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Hey Sonny, With the exception of Ronnie, I think we've all made the mistake of trusting someone or getting careless with our policies of getting a deposit, etc. Here's my thoughts... I could make up the lost $$ in about half an hour and move on. That's alot less time and energy than you've spent stewing over being had. Not to say that I wouldn't get $50 worth of satisfaction out of it... I would make a "sun shade" for the windshield of my car and park it legally one Saturday morning at the entrance to the marina (facing traffic). The sign would say something like "ATTENTION: Mr. Soandso has short paid an invoice for lettering his boat by $50. If contacted by him for work, I felt you should know in advance that this might happen to you. Sign it! He may not like it, but you could sit next to your vehicle and pass out free lemonade to anyone who stops for more info, all the while protecting your leally parked car from any potential damage by a pissed-off former customer. If he happens by to discuss it, offer him some lemonade and tell him that you'll gladly remove the sign and your vehicle for $100 cash. Have a nice day!
------------------ Pete Kouchis Say it with SIGNS, Inc. Orland Park, IL, USA Phone: (708)460-3001 Fax: (708)460-3006
"If you haven't got time to do it right, when you gonna find time to do it over?"
Posts: 150 | From: Orland Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ron, Maybe this belongs on e-mail, and not on the BB, but many seem to be interested, so I'll put my response here. First off, you are working in a much larger market, population-wise than I am. Given that, most likely your customers are probably strangers the first time you meet. My area is essentially rural, and if everybody doesn't know everybody else, there are usually at least mutual acquaintences, and that is where the referral angle comes into play. On that basis, I would have to say yes I would have let him leave, and have done so in the past for more $ than what you mentioned. As I mentioned somewhere else, I think I have learned to read people pretty well over the last 60plus years-- the first impression versus snap judgement thing, and I've only been zinged really badly once in all these years in the biz. That one time I failed badly on reading the customer. In my own defense, tho', I had done work for him previously and been paid promptly. I also think that even you would admit that there is a certain amount of $ loss expected and built in to our economic system i.e. higher prices to cover shoplifting in retail stores. Certainly I don't condone not getting paid, but sooner or later it is going to happen-- to me, to you, and all the rest of us. Accept it as a fact of life, and move on.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
[This message has been edited by Bill Preston (edited September 01, 2001).]
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Well, this one sure took an interesting tack.
Mark, I was a political science major at Clemson - I guess that's why this happened. BTW, I think I'll get one of those Calvin stickers and substitute the Ford/Chevy with a picture of his boat.
Ronnie: I assure you that in 31 years of running my own business, I have never operated expecting to lose money, nor has anyone else here. Fortunately, I only encounter one these jerks every 5 or 6 years. The vast majority of my customers are repeats and have become good friends over the years. I don't make $200,000 a year, but I do OK, and enjoy going to work and the interaction with my customers. Maybe I'm working off a different set of values, but for me, it's NOT just the money. I take pride in my work, and enjoy the benefits of many referrals. I don't advertise and stay busy year-round. I could care less about the $50 this guy shorted me, but when he said he was unsatisfied with the job (after it's been on for 3 months), that gets me riled. I assume from your posts that you could give a rat's ass whether you ever see the customer who just left your shop again. I can't work that way.
Jim,Jackson and Myra: I think you're right about time and energy. It's worth it to me to send a carefully worded, acid-tongued registered letter, specifically addressing some of his comments, along with a deadline and added interest, court costs, etc. and just see what happens. After that, we fageddaboutit.
Pete: LOL. Maybe instead of lemonade, I can pass out free beer and get a huge crowd to go pee in his boat.
Again, thanks for all your input - LETTERVILLE ROCKS.
------------------ Sonny Franks Sign Creations Atlanta
Posts: 4117 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Bill, Getting ripped off is a very common fact of life but it only happens if you let it happen. If it happens there's no one to blame but yourself. This is the last time I will ever say it David I will never give credit, never start a sign or project without a 50% deposit & the balance paid before the job leaves my shop, period so not to sound arrogant Bill but it will never happen to me. It's not just about the money it's about not letting people get over on you, I refuse to be a victim it's my personality & I can't change that not that I would want to anyway. Your right being in a big city is the difference I don't know 75% of the people who come through my door so naturally I don't trust them you have to earn trust. Now I'm not so mean in my personal life 15 weeks ago I sold a $300.00 HP scanner to a friend of 35 years for only $75.00 on credit to this day I haven't been paid & it doesn't matter to me, friends are worth more than money but that's my personal life but my business is just that & I run it as a business. So you should all feel better I've been taken & taken lots of other times by personal dealings with friends & their still my friends & I will still stick my neck out for friends lose the money or not I treat my friends as family & forgive their short comings. But my business that's a completely different story.
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One ought to always leave well enough alone, and the last letter reads like it’s even better than that. But sometimes I can’t help myself when its Story time I have a beautiful rock outside my shop door. It’ about the size of my modest butt, and sits decorously in shimmering smaller mica rocks and is surrounded by annuals and perennials. It’s a pretty sight, especially since it is hand-painted (OK so I used masks of vinyl and rolled one shot) with large day lilies and the words “Princess Morris”, and birth date and death date. The rock was to be put on the grave of the cat of a woman whose son went to school with my son, and there I had a situation where the knowledge of the person, and her grief over the cat did not lend themselves to making a big deal over a deposit when she shlepped the rock in my door and asked me to commemorate her beloved animal in picture and words.
She ignored my phone calls, made promises that turned out to be empty, and never came back. One glorious sunshiny day I took a color photo (in landscape mode) of her rock in its picturesque setting. I then sent it to her as a post card to tell her that I now used the rock as a warning to others when I ask for deposits, and that I tell them Princess Morris was her dead pet, not mine, and not really buried here. I thanked her for my visual opportunity to prove that deposits are necessary even from people you know. I offered to replace the rock with any she can find on my property. But that her rock was now mine. Never heard a peep, of course. End of story
------------------ Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC V 336-722-1033/F 336-723-6112 signslimited@triad.rr.com
Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi, Ron, and other interested parties, I do not feel better that you have been taken in your personal dealings with your friends-- nobody in his right mind would. I do think your philosophical differences between how you deal with friends versus business are very much at odds with each other. Speaking of philosophical differences, I guess yours and mine will never come to a meeting of the minds, and that's fine. There used to be a saying that kicked around the hospital where I used to work-- let me borrow from it to say this -- "in medicine, or in life, never say never and never say always." You say it wont happen to you because you wont let it. Well, maybe. I wish you good luck, and that is not meant to be a snide remark. On that note, I think this one should be put to bed.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Bill, I also think enough has been said Just let me say I didn't mean to offend anyone I know I do come on strong some times. I really did have good intentions in mind & thought maybe my experience could help someone but in reality maybe I shoud wait until someone ask for help or advice.Being from a very large city, second only in size to Atlanta the constant violence,people with no morals, generally there's a lot of bad people in this town & I'm sure every large city has them. I also use to be a deputy which put me in daily contact with the city's worst citizen's, I guess that also has something to do with me having a problem not trusting people I don't know. I hope for the best but plan & expect the worst.Dealing with violent crime on a daily basic has it toll on your view of life in general. But enough said I will not harp on the subject anymore.So please accept my apology for coming on to strong. I did have the best intentions but I did come on a little strong.
PS: Bill the customer owed me $240.00 would you have let him just leave? If he resents me wanting the money I worked for I don't want his repeat business.Something I didn't mention was I told him to make the check payable to me & I would run cash it the bank was only a mile away but he didn't want to do that WHY I'm about 100% sure there was no money in the bank he wanted to write me a worthless check,& brag about his great new FREE tint job.Not going to happen I refuse to be anyone's victim.
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