posted
How does everyone else go about getting paid? I have been considering changing over to a "Cash, Check or Credit Card"only method of payment, NO OPEN ACCOUNTS. Has anyone else done this and how did it affect your customers & business. I realize that there are some of the larger accounts that will almost certainly scream at the idea but it has gotten down to either loose their business or loose my a#$%@^!
All comments will be greatly appreciated.
------------------ Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas 870-862-5073
Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I have mmany problems in this area also. Real estate agents are the worst to pass invoices on, or to forget to send them to corporate. Others have the excuse they forgot their checkbook (mm hmm)......some just give you a blank stare (like "huh....you mean I have to PAY you NOW?") But everybody needs their signs right NOW. I get really tired of waiting for the damn check to be in the mail. I know I know.......there are some who will reply here with how they get paid upfront in full on time. Good for you! But Big businesses don't always work that way. If you want the job.....you will have to wait at least 30 days to get paid. Right now I have lots of payments due. Kids want school clothes....school supplies.....It is hard being in business for yourself with only one income.
------------------ surf or MoJo on mirc Cheryl J Nordby Signs by Cheryl Seattle WA.....! signsbycheryl@hotmail.com
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Unless "special arrangements" are made, like with the City Guvmint or the School System (They ALWAYS pay, even if it takes a while!), I get 50% down on all jobs over $200, and 100% down on all below that! If the customer doesn't like it, I blow him off, cause I figure if he doesn't understand "good business", I'm not gonna train him! I usually end up telling the customer "I'm NOT A BANK....YOU WANT THE SIGN....I WANT THE MONEY!"
------------------ Bob Burns Bob Burns Signs
1619 Oregon Ave. Prescott, Az 86305 1-928-778-5879
Posts: 2121 | From: Prescott, Arizona, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I deal with a lot of the large plants around here. They will NOT make deposits or pay on delivery. All invoices are sent to a different locations, and checks come from yet another location.
The first thing I do is, add 5% to cover me for carrying them for 30-90 days. After adding the 5%, offer them terms of "2% 10 NET 30" You will be surprised how many will pay within 10 days to get that 2% discount, and you still get to keep a little extra money to cover the ones that don't.
This normally only works with large corporations that spend enough money in a year for 2% to make a difference.
------------------ Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane.
Posts: 2315 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Don's right! A 2% discount if paid within 10 days does work and gets your invoice moved to the top of their payables file. It also creates another "problem customer" though. The one who will TAKE that 2% discount, even though they're not even closely entitled to do so...checque arrives 90 days later with that 2% deducted. Then , if you're so inclined, you get to chase after them for that 2%. It usually isn't worth the time or trouble, and that's what those cheapskates COUNT ON. They are few & far between, but they are out there, enough so to convince me that A**holes are universal.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
you nailed that one dead on. money collection can be a real head ache, especially with larger firms. thirty to sixty days are not uncommon.
before anyone goes off and calls us all fools for not collecting our monies in advance or whatever, i remind you about the credit that we all receive from our suppliers, utilities, etc.
can you imagine having to pay for all your materials in advance? i remember those day! sometimes not too fondly! lol! imagine the gas company coming to your shop everyday and asking for the payment due on the gas you used or the power company looking for the cash for the electricity.
we have some slow pay accounts ourselves. we have come to the conclusion that we have the choice of continuing to due business with them at the status quo, continue business but make them c.o.d., or just stop doing work for them altogether. we have used all three options at one time or another.
we charge 2% of the amount due after 30 days. we send out an invoice and include the new service charges. we do not consider an account paid in full until all monies due ( meaning original amount and late fees) are collected.
some people refuse to pay the fees. so be it for them. they get new invoices and if they are not paid, we turn them over for collection. we don't feel that it is worth the aggravation to take it all personally.
we did discuss this with our lawyer and accountant and have considered raising the late fees to 10%. we found that new york state allows you to charge whatever amount you deem fit as long as it is in store credit and business is not conducted across interstate lines.
this is why sears and penny's can only charge the interest they do (as outrageous as it is! lol!). they must conform to the usury laws whereas we don't. same thing with visa and such. they must comply and we don't.
you might check with your accountant about usury laws in your own state. i can only account for the advice we got.
but anyway, i think that our good paying and on time customers far outweigh the bad ones. we take the good with the bad and just get along as best we can. credit in business is a two edged sword. guess it depends on which side is hitting you now. lol!
have a great one!
------------------ Bruce Bowers DrCAS Signtech
"how great are His signs..." Daniel 4:3
i am a proud supporter of this website!
Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I used to go through all the things you are talking about when I had a shop. Since going mobile I'va taken a little different approach, more personal if you will. I have a couple of truck dealers that I bill, they pay the next week, thats about as far as I extend credit. The bigger corporations and even the governments all have means of cutting a check in a few minutes IF you take the time press them on it. Thay all have diffent names for it but they all have accounts for "cash on demand". Whenever I deal with some big company rep and they tell me I have to get a P.O. I just say I don't accept them I HAVE to have a check, can he please give me the name and number of the person in charge of cutting checks. A few minutes of explanations ( the kids need school clothes is a good one to put it on a personal level ) and a check is cut. It might seem like a hassle at the time but it beats the hell out of waiting 60 days. If I can charm a crabby bookeeper into cutting a check with my personality, anybody can do it.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I have to agree with George here, I tell customers at the point of sale,the price,the terms,& any deposits or special circumstances that I can foresee involving the job.I tell folks right out I'm a small business & no way I can afford to finance their advertising budget,End of discussion! If they say they need different terms then the deal is renegotiated on the spot. I have no qualms whatsoever adding 25% to a price if they want me to wait 30 days for payment.If they get indignant I tell them to find someone else I can't afford to do their work & finance their ad budget too.I should insert a note here 95% of my work is hand painted & or high wall & or billboard work,so I do not have very much competition. Most of the time they have been searching for someone who does my type of work & have found me thru referrals,thus they know what to expect.
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"The McDonalds Plan" thats waht we call it ..."Give me the money and you get yer burger n' fries" We get 1/3 down and balance on completeion except for a couple of accounts we deem "trustable" and only then because we know they pay within 10 days.
We carry no one...
I know I know it all sounds like we say it here just to sound like we're good... wee're great. Thats not the case, customers will do what you "train" them to do, if you let them ride they will ride.If you give them discounts they will exceed your terms and take the discount anyway (your so happy to get the check you don't say anything)so nextime they do it again and so forth.
We have NO 30, 60 or 90 day accounts and have collected every dime that has been owed us in 15 years. I've been "had" twice in that time and only one of them got away (til I see him next).
Thats a pretty darn good record and it is all because we tell everyone (up front) what the terms are.
Now for you "BIG ACCOUNT" people...we have a few... "Hitachi" sound like it might be major? "Shakley" sound familiar? I contacted the comptroller of each of these major corporations and set it up with them (based on their purchase orders) to invoice them when they place the order,(if you have a purchase order it means they have already agreed to pay what I ask) so they process the check and it is waiting for me when the sign item is complete and delivered.You too can set this up with your "biggies" all you have to do is take the time to seek out the powers to be and set it up...(they aint gonna do it for you) the name of their game is to stretch it out as long as they can and operate on your money (kinda funny when you think about it ...they are the millionaires and they are operating on your money) but only because you let them.
"Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"!
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
[This message has been edited by Monte Jumper (edited August 25, 2001).]
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Most ALL of our accounts are sign shops, architects or general contractors. Every one of them is on a 7 day one-pay. Pay in 7 days you get the wholesale price. Take 8 or more days and it's 25% more. After 30 days it goes to the 40% up from wholesale to full retail. I can't remember the last time anyone went over 7 days.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
Seriously, every corporate client I have uses a corporate Visa or Amex card. It costs 1.5 to 2.95% to process but I get the money in 24-48 hours. Also, I have a sign that says we have a $100 returned check fee. Haven't gotten a bad check since I posted that.
------------------ Brian Snyder Sign Solutions www.njsign.com Woodbridge, New Jersey
[This message has been edited by Brian Snyder (edited August 25, 2001).]
Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've learned alot here about everything. The main thing I learned is get a deposit. I now do that on all jobs, 50%down, rest on completion/delivery. If that aint okay with em, tuff. THe only exception, like Bob, is the county and city school system. THey always pay. I just recently dropped one customer over slow/non payment. Also called all sign shops locally and told em about them. They still owe me money, and I still bill em for it, but even if I don't get it, I am at least free of them. THat's the first time I ever done that in all the years of doing signs, but it was a have to case. Now, if they don't pay, they don't get the sign. The other shop that does business in my area is the same way, so the customers have to get used to it. As far as collecting, with this policy, it isn't a problem anymore. Break em into it, and if they like your work, they'll adjust.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
posted
I liked a couple of those...I'll have to use some of those!
One thing we have done to cover ourselves due the nature of making larger type jobs (we don't do too much bannerwork) is we add at the bottom of out sales order that "all work remains the property of ...until paid in full. We have taken several down because of it too...and showcase one large one so customers see just how serious we are about it! Haven't had a problem yet...or since then!
------------------ Robert Beverly Dreamweaver Graphics House Arlington, Texas
Host of the "1st Annual Dreamweaver Jam" June 7,8,9, 2002
posted
In twelve years of painting windows and signs for businesses, my tally is still over 100% collections! I have actually had to send more duplicate checks back than having to run anyone down for payment. Amazingly, I trust and they pay. Some have even sent me the check when I forgot to statement them!
I generally run around a 20 day backlog on cash with A/R. It is rare that anyone goes out over 45 days and at 30, I generally either call or send another friendly reminder. One smalltimer guy last year called with a sob story about how he was bilked by someone else and sent me a check for half and then it bounced. I politely sent it back with a note to call me when he could square up with me. It is a $150 ticket. So far he has sent me over $5000 worth of customers and another good one yesterday as my reward for being a patient guy. I bet in the next few months he will come thru. He is genuinely going thru some hard times and my hunch is giving him some slack will get me more down the road. You can shear a lamb once a year, but you can skin him only once!
I have never believed in extra charges or little baloney drills about 2% for paying your bill on time. Too much work. I figure there should be a few losses and there really have not been any losses by carefully watching the A/R deal twice weekly. I have had a few edgy customers that were cash only and numerous others who had to pay half down, but most of my clients are car doggies and car dealers really do pay their bills, amazingly.
My best advice is to really watch Accounts Receivables and simply use your best judgement. Some trust will definitely get you some loyalty, but foolishness will also get you some sleepless nights... You just have to balance it all by what you can swallow.
------------------ Preston McCall 2516 W 63rd St. Mission Hills, Kansas 66208 913-262-3443 office 816-289-7112 cell
Posts: 1562 | From: Overland Park, KS | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
my credit mangers name is Hellen Wait. so I tell everyone that if you want credit!! go to hell..en wait...lol for me its 50% down and the other 50% when done service calls are the only ones i give credit too most of the time it neon and has to go back to my shop to be fixed!! so if they want it back have a check waiting!
posted
so..ya all got some of my customers....heheheheheheh....all i can say is when i lived in sarasota, fl. i was in business from 86-98...and i had some a/r accounts...but i was never left empty handed..they all paid...and i can say that in all those years i had never had anyone stick me. moved to pensacola in july 98...so far iam out $650, $200, $300 and this $60 one i did the rant about. not real good pr for this area of the world...(gota be the people here)...and iam now puttin my foot down...NO MONEY, NO SIGN...you want credit go to the bank.....iam so bad now...got a job last week for $250....got it all up front...hehehehehehehehehehe then did the sign....
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Let's start a list here how many times have you been scre*** ? RONNIE... ,ZERO ,ZIP NADA. , NEXT I know this will not be popular but dam I'm tired of hearing about people giving credit & getting the shaft, the biggest companies in the world do not give credit, have you ever walked in sears picked up a TV & told them you will mail them a check tomorrow? I know a lot of you are very very good Sign Makers but as a business men? A lot of you have a lot of learning to do. Being a small business owner does not come with a handbook saying everyone gets credit. Had to get that off my chest do you all realize how many whine on this BB on this subject. NO CREDIT, NO WHINING. This isn't meant for all just the people who gave their hard earned product away FOR FREE! SORRY I JUST DON'T GET IT, NO CREDIT, NO HEARTACHE, THEY PAY THEIR BILLS, YOU PAY YOUR BILLS HOW SIMPLER COULD IT BE.
posted
We have a mix of clients, many large ones who have ESTABLISHED a credit account with us. We require references and we check them, never just say ok send a check to anyone that has not been cleared and we have a legitimate billing protocol for them. Never had a problem with any that we set up this way. Some may be slow but we know we will get paid once all the hands put their ok on the invoice. We do charge 2% service charge after 30 days from date of invoice, plus after the first statement, a $10 rebilling charge. They may not pay that but the check comes right away. Many new companies use credit or debit cards which is great and we prefer since they cannot easily establish credit. All others pay cash, many full in advance, especially without a history or D&B credit rating. We do so much for new businesses that they don't have a rating yet so no credit from us. We also may not start the work until the check clears, especially with new companies and low numbered checks. Long green is more rare due to the size of our typical project but we like it too.
------------------ Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio Greeley, Colorado, USA kent@smithsignstudio.com
Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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if they say can i mail you a check i ask them did the mail man bring you your sign? i tell them when the mail man delivers your sign he can bring me my check.
------------------ Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 164 Poplar Rd. Commerce, Ga 30529 706-335-2348 Fax 706-335-3378 icq#11718273
Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The ONE problem with 50% down and the balance on delivery, is if they're dumb enough not to take the signs and pay you.....what do you do with the signs. Hopefully, 50% in "front" covers THAT, but....sometimes it doesn't and your stuck with signs you can't use. Maybe 50% just ain't quite enough! Every now and then, I'll get a job with 50% down....like a truck......We'll arrange a certain day and time for the truck to be delivered to complete the job....and they don't show up. Whadda you do to cover your time......do you charge EXTRA, or what?!
------------------ Bob Burns Bob Burns Signs
1619 Oregon Ave. Prescott, Az 86305 1-928-778-5879
Posts: 2121 | From: Prescott, Arizona, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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) and a check is cut. It might seem like a hassle at the time but it beats the hell out of waiting 60 days.
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