posted
well, it wasn't a great week-end painting windows uisng my old stand-by, Rich Art. my customer has a problem with the coverage (as did i); there were too many "bald" spots where the underlaying whites weren't opaque enough, and the flourescent colors looked unusually streaky. you could really tell how i'd been using the rollers by studying the finished job, on the flourescent greens and blues especially. this has always been a mild problem and nusance before, but the first time anybody has said anything about it. also, the rich art leaves a clay-like "terrain" once it's up on the glass and dried; lettering on top of this goop and outlining around it can be really tough. so what's the secret to getting a smoother, more opaque surface? (if you want to suggest switching to oil-base, i won't be able to hear you! but if somebody wants to suggest a different brand of water-base...) does using a foam roller as opposed to the touch-up type work any better for anybody? the flouresents are so gummy and clay-like... what can i add to get a creamier texture to this stuff? is there a better paint to do the black outlining with? furthermore- is there a better water-base paint than rich art that i should consider using??? maybe something that behaves more like good ol' fashioned LATEX house paint? and WHO carries it? does anybody know what nick barber uses? i'm tired of fighting and am about ready to switch... this week-end was more frustrating than usual (and of COURSE i'm going to blame the materials.. i mean, how COULD it have been MY fault???) so what's everybody using??? help me out- let me know!!! thanks! -j
------------------ John Hayes John Hayes Illustration Lenexa, Kansas jhayes2613@aol.com
posted
Hello John...I think I have a scald on your problem. Try this and see what you think!
There is no set recipe but before Tempra colors there was Pactra paint...you may be familiar with it, but if your not it was a powder paint that you mixed with water...part of the problem with it was the same you have described here.
Keep in mind none of these paints were ever developed to use outside....they were created for sho-card work and evolved to outside glass use because some "Sign Painter" decided it would work and the manufacturer eager to maintain a market kept supplying it for glass use.
Never the less here are two things "we" (us old farts) did to enhance the product (both Pactra and Tempra) In the summer we would add small amounts of liquid detergent...this kept the paint "wetter" so it could be brushed or rolled for longer periods of time,it never made it flow but it would give you a chance to apply it smoother.
In the Winter we had trouble with it freezing and breaking the glass jars the Tempra colors came in...solution? Denatured Alcohol...it would mix easily butsome times needed a little soap to slow its drying.
I'm not saying this will solve your problem...but it's worth a try, you'll have to experiment with your paints (heat and humidity will determin the mix).
Oh did I mention that the soap also makes it easier to remove later but doesn't effect its stability? Something else you want to remember...your finsh coat is only as good as you primer or under coat...strive there for excellence. Hope this helps!
"It werked fer me ,it'll werk fer you"
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
[This message has been edited by Monte Jumper (edited August 12, 2001).]
posted
John, you didn't say which RichArt you wrere using...was it their water colors or their Wibdow Paint?
Anyhow, for the white base coat, I use plain ol' white latex (whatever is on sale) and may have to double coat on tinted windows. I am using "DayGlo" paint for my fluorescent colors...I am sure there are other brands that are just as good.
To help out with smoothness and flow...try "FloTrol" same as Penetrol (for latex) and is available at all paint stores.
I don't like the way foam brushes handle, so I use Langnickle "Nocturna" for outlines.
Hopew this helps!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
95% of all accidents occur immediately after the words "Hey...watch this."
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
yeah, just received a few "nocturna" brushes and i like them very much. i should've mentioed that i was using rich art WINDOW paint, in those little whit plastic containers. WHERE can i get the water-base Da-Glo paints??
------------------ John Hayes John Hayes Illustration Lenexa, Kansas jhayes2613@aol.com
posted
I never got into the window splash scene, but did a few, mostly helping friends that did it. I remember a couple guys adding glycerine to the color. Don't know what for or what it did. Please tell me?
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6805 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Using the old adage "if you can't say anything good about something or somebody, don't say anything at all". I'll say I tried the stuff when it first came out. Since you won't hear any suggestions to change types of paint I'll say I have met a number of "splashers" that work the central and southern parts of the country ( your area included ) I've never met one that used waterbased paint. I don't know what your reluctance to using oil based would be but a dissatisfied customer is NOT a good thing!
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
George....Window Splashes are temporary, they are changed every few months! The reason for using "tempra" is the ease of removal in order to do a new one. Rain is not a problem, except for a couple of months during the Winter. Also, tempra colors are much easier and quicker to apply: 1. Quick drying. 2. Better flow. 3. Ease of removal. 4. Brushes and rollers are cleand with plain ol' water.
During the rainy season, we simply give Window Splashes a clear coat to prevent rain damage, IF the customer requests it. Many would rather take a chance, rather than have to scrape off the splash, instead of simply washing it off.
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
95% of all accidents occur immediately after the words "Hey...watch this."
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Si, I know they use water colors in Ca., I've just never run across anyone around here using them. Got a question though, if you are using latex for a base doesn't that require the dreaded scraping for removal?
And now I'll let you have a real laugh at my expense, the first one of these I ever did I used Kilz for a base, talk about a bear to remove ------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
George....interior latex doesn't "grab" onto glass all the strongly. A bit of detergent, allowed to soak in for a few minutes will loosen it enoghy so that a scrub brush will get it off easily. Some customers, rather than scrub, will (after letting it soak) use one of those wide putty knives that sheet rock guys use, and peels off in big sheets, with no effort. Almost like a window wshers squeegee.
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
95% of all accidents occur immediately after the words "Hey...watch this."
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
[This message has been edited by Si Allen (edited August 13, 2001).]
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
it has just dawned me that perhaps a lot of my problem metnioned above is that the rich art in question is made with CLAY! i got to thinking- just last week i did a window on a window in a foyer of the INSIDE of a building and everything went just fine, so why was my week-end job so rough? maybe because i was OUTSIDE, where it's HOT and HUMID...?
------------------ John Hayes John Hayes Illustration Lenexa, Kansas jhayes2613@aol.com
posted
i use an exterior water base busan latex house primer and single coat with rollers then colored with flourescents purchased from product sign supply (the name escapes me right now) then outline with a nocturna or gold taklon brushes and apple barrel craft paint from wal-mart this is in southern oregon home of the oregon rain festival(jan 1 to dec 31) with no topcoating and some of my customers have no awning for protection jon
------------------ jon peterman 109 mardan dr grants pass, or. 97527 signjon@cpros.com a.k.a. dc-62 success is getting up more times than you fall down
Posts: 434 | From: grants pass or. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic