posted
Bob Rochon's reference to enamels is appropriate here. I think maybe people shy away from one-shot for this use for a couple of reasons. One would be having to wait on it because of slower drying time. Another might be the question at least in my tiny mind as to whether the vinyl is "enamel-receptive". Given that, I would scuff first, then frog juice , heat-set, and then airbrush the one-shot, then wait, and wait, and wait some more. After all that, I might or might not frog juice again. The next question that occurs is this-- will the one-shot stay flexible enough to tolerate whatever bending might be necessary in order to apply the vinyl? And last, how is all this going to tolerate transfer tape removal? Again, your thoughts and opinions, please.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Hi Everyone! Thank you so so much for all your answers. At least I still feel there is hope for me. It is nice to know that I am not the only one to have some prombles with spraying vinyl. If anyone would like to comment on the type of vinyl they airbrush I would appreciate it. I have tried the clear enamel receptive and white. It is like it someone said, this is like a seminar on the internet. I have learned more from this sight then all the books and magazines I have read. My thanks to Barbara and Steve for doing this site. The $50 that I sent to them to be a member has come back to me at least 10 times. Again tanks to all who responed. Roger, I am jealous you are living in Hawaii.
posted
Hi Cynthia. I've been using AutoAir for about 2 years with great results. I cut the vinyl(Calon HP), rough it up with a Scotchbrite pad(fine), clean with alcohol and tack cloth, then paint @ 50psi. I used to spray a 35psi but my airbrush(Iwata Eclipse HP-CS) would clog up. At 50psi I don't have that problem. I use a heat gun in between coats of paint. When done painting, I clear with FrogJuice BEFORE I weed. After the Froggy dries, I mask and apply with RapidTac. Then I wet down the masking tape before I remove it. The only problem I have had with paint stickin' to vinyl is when I tried the "new, improved" Krylon junk. The old Krylon(before Borden sold out to Sherwin-Williams) worked great on vinyl.
OT: Cynthia, I used to go to Galax during the Seventies(71-76) for the annual Galax Fiddler's Festival. What I remember(when I wasn't sh*t-faced on corn whiskey) was great music and people of all ages partying 'til they dropped. Great times!
------------------ Mike"Spud"Kelly theSignWorx Ashburnham, MA 978.827.4439
"Your reputation is made by others; your character is made by you."
Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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To answer some of your questions, I Have had problems in the past with tiny little pieces sometimes coming up with transfer tape.
But out of every problem comes a solution, I now spray ( which I forgot to mention ) Ticote on the vinyl, we use all 3m / gerber vinyl for any paint work. All 3m or gerber 220 series has been told to me by a 3m rep. to be "enamel receptive". So with this in mind, a cote of ticote and a 3m lo-tac application tape has served us flawlessly.
Ticote is made to be a binder to vinyl, dries quick and clear.
And we always spray the day before we do a job so drying time is planned.
As for flexibility, the enamel is sprayed in thin layers, unless we spray into a brushed layer, but then again most of this work is for truck lettering so it is almost always applied to a flat verticle surface.
Hope this helps.
------------------ Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA bob@creativesignworks.com
"Some people's kids"
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanx, Bob Quick response is appreciated, and, yes you have answered my ?s. I've been using Spar-Cal premium, now Avery for about five years, but I still don't know if it is considered "enamel-receptive", that is why I frog juice beforehand. Have also found that it doesn't pay to try to rush some things i.e. tape removal, and that is why I consider soaking it before trying to get it off as cheap insurance. Thanx, again.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Dave Wright...youre correct in one way...but this is the lowdown....everyone believes that waterbase stuff is safer..it is not...youre body is mostly water and anything that's encapsulated chemically in water can be easily absorbed into your body..it recognizes it as being the 'same' in a nutshell....the same pigments/toxic components used in solvent based sysytems are used in waterbased systems,yes,even latex...solvent based systems are much harder for your body to deal with.....its by no means safer,its just recognized more readily as 'an invader' when it enters your system and is more easily broken down into other components by you're bodies systems..ex...take a gallon of water based isocyanates and dump it into a drinking well and you've contaminated that well forever,dump a gallon of solvent based isocyanates in there and they will degrade to into other chemical forms and you will be able to use the well again....and NO DON'T TRY THAT AT HOME.....or consider this...tattoo inks are waterbased for a reason....anything else would be rejected by the body. None of the damage done by this stuff is immediate,remember that..its a build up over time that does the harm...solvent based stuff is more aggressive by nature and as a result you may see some kinda symptomatic reaction pop up as a result right away that has nothing to do with long term exposure...i know i've read here that people have switched to water based systems b/c solvents were making them sick...and yes that happens,its an individual thing just like allergies so by all means switch...but don't not take precautions just because the stuff doesnt smell as bad or burn when it hits you etc....a note on the smell aspect...we have a few products in the store that have a noxious component added to em on purpose b/c they don't have a 'bad' enuff odor on their own for the manufacturers to feel confident people will know its bad stuff....kinda like the bacteria they put in can goods to make the can swell after a certain age. Believe me,i'm not saying solvent based stuff is safer by a long shot,it's just that so many people think waterbased products are all like johnsons baby shampoo. And yes,i know.."it hasnt killed me yet,i should be dead by now"...how many times have you heard that...
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I forgot...somebody emailed me and said that whenever they shoot auto air and clear it,the underlying surface still seems rough(can't remember who it was,sorry)...most likely cause of that is this....remember the auto air has a much larger particle size and almost no surface flow...so you never really get a uniformly flat/integral surface with it..there's always tiny pinholes and valleys etc that your eye can't pick up...the clear will go down into those,dry around em amd highlight em. And a side note to the pricing issue...for this the screen inks are you're best bet and i've seen a couple of people say well they're $25-$30/qt or so...figure paying $3.50-$4.95 for 4oz of Auto Air it works out to $28-$37/qt......and auto air won't last even a quarter as long..Del Badry told me he's had a couple of qts for over 5yrs now....try that with auto air
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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If you have adequate ventilation, you shouldnt notice any overpowering aroma from the inks. Sure, they stink.. but that's why there's respirators and fans. I walked into a local mass production screening shop and you can smell the inks from the OUTSIDE of the building there. Inside is pretty non-aromatic, their vents keep the place fresh. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours out in the garage spraying a bunch of vinyl jobs with vinyl inks.. the most discomfort I experienced was from the 115 degree heat. With the garage door open and a big ol' fan pushin the air out the rear door, there wasnt any smell lingering around when I took the respirator off.
I dont think smell is a good indicator of toxics. Antifreeze doesnt smell all that bad, certainly not overpowering.. I'd dare anyone to drink it and try not to die.
Anyway.....
The only way to know the toxic levels of paints and pigments is to read the MSDS on the products.
Even vinyl films are dangerous.
I was bored one night so I did some research, found some MSDS on vinyl. Vinyl films can give ya cancers and all kinds of problems if you stick it in yer mouth or if it's somehow absorbed into your body... just like the vinyl inks and all the paints we use in this biz.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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