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Customer wants possibly dimensional letters attached to his building, 22" high, and he wants em reflective. He worrys about cost too. Doesn't want to go the gemini way. THought maybe I'd use foam stylite foam letters, and put reflective vinyl on them after coating them out. I have had good luck on a couple jobs with foam letters, and I'm pretty sure this would work. What do you guys(and girls) think?
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
John, I would use glass beads over the letters instead of vinyl. Simply apply glass beads just as you would smalts, over One Shot / Smith's Cream mix. Similar effect at a fraction of the cost.
Jeff
------------------ Jeffrey P. Lang Olde Lang Signs Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 412 732-9999 oldelangsigns@msn.com
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Another option would be aluminum faced letters. Glue aluminum sheets onto the foam and cut them with a router or scroll saw. It comes in every color under the rainbow and is real glossy.
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Jeff, explain how beading is cheaper than premium reflective over sintra. A breakdown, please.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
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Good idea. So..............which one of us is going to tell her?
heh
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
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Actually "glass beads" would work. I have used them on roofs, what you do is use an white acrylic paint, while it's drying, sprinkle the beads on it. It's done, then mount. Or just tell him this is what a a "real reflective letter would cost" Glass beads are sold by the pound.
------------------
aka: Cisco aka:Traveling Millennium Sign Artist http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I've always wanted to throw a handful of glass beads on to a dance floor with a bunch of drunks and watch the fun! Something similar to walking on ball bearings!!!
------------------ Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas 870-862-5073
Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Usually reflective materials are used where the headlights hit them, creating the drama of seeing them get bright. At 22 feet in the air there will need to be flood lights on them, so why go reflective?
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick is right, of course. Without ambient light, reflective is useless. I was interested in seeing a breakdown between reflective film and glass beading. We do beading too by shaking it into a coat of clear Pelucid with a brilliant painted undercoat, then finsihing it with a sprayed on coat of Pelucid. Super bright and permanent. BUT.....reflective film is faster and cheaper overall.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
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No idea about cost. It's not our job and we have no specs at all. We get our beads from Dietz & Sons. There are tons of sizes and types, so I can't help with that either. Only JD3 can shed any light. Jeff was taking about "a fraction of the cost", and I couldn't picture what that would be.......so I asked.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
Reflective paint on styrofoam letters would be cheap! You can pounce a pattern & cut the letters with a jigsaw... I know I've seen reflective paint before... it's like an industrial/safety product. Your main cost would definitely be labor on that... I guess it would depend on if you felt like doing all that nesty work... cutting styrofoam, spraying harsh paint? yucky!
------------------ Glenn S. Harris Lorio Design Baton Rouge, LA allorio@bellsouth.net
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I deal with a company called Mossburg that sells stylite foam letters. Little more dense than regular styrofoam. 22" letters from them are only about 9 bucks per. I thought I'd paint em, apply reflective vinyl, and there they are. And they are not going 22' up. They are 22" letters. They'll be up about 10 feet high, and in direct line from traffic on the by pass here. Actually, a pretty good idea by the client. Only thing is, he doesn't want to spend alot of money. I thought this would be the best way cost wise. etc.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
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John, To put reflective beads on the surface, first coat the styrofoam with two coats of latex paint. Oil based paint will attack the styrofoam. I usually use holdfast background glue mixed with whatever color of One Shot I want the letters to be and lay them horizontally. After the color is on, I use a can with holes in the bottom & liberally sprinkle the glass beads over the wet paint. after the mixture is dry, usually overnight, tilt the letters up to spill off the excess beads & save the extras. I'm not sure if glass beads are available from any of the merchants, I purchace them from a sand supplier here in Pittsburgh for around $25 for a 40 pound bag. Roughly 50 cents a pound. A pound will cover approximately 12-16 square feet. I mentioned the Smith's Cream mixture in the first reply, & many other people I know use it, & I don't know which lasts longer, but I prefer the Holdfast Background glue which I purchased at Quill, Hair & Ferrule. How high are the letters going? I would agree with Rick, if they are higher than 10 or 12 feet, it may be a wasted effort. I think reflective vinyl is about $1.50-$3.00 a square foot depending on the brand. I have had good success with this method & have a few wooden signs up over 7 years & they still look great. Good luck & keep us posted! Jeff
------------------ Jeffrey P. Lang Olde Lang Signs Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 412 732-9999 oldelangsigns@msn.com
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I might be willing to give that a try Jeff, but I know of nowhere local or otherwise in my vicinity that I could purchase the glass beads. I actually checked today with some places but none of them had them. I'm in the boonies here. And, like I said above, the letters will be about 10 feet high, and in direct line with headlights of traffic. I checked it out last night.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
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I find it very common that some folks in buiss. mistake the true "cost of labor".
Some would say "its the amount we charge per hour" Somewould say its 40% or 60% of the amount we charge per hour.
I look at it different then some; If I charge $45.00 per hour for labor, and pay my help $12.00 per hour,thats $33.00 gross. Since I am the guy that finds the work, and pays the rent, and pays the help, and supervises the help(to keep them in the productive column), then I consider myself responsible for two times the gross. This means I'm "worth" $66.00 per hour to my buiss., now when I go to "do something" I have to take a look at what amount of money I will be "making".
For instance, if I decide to coat out my own M.D.O. board, is it really a savings of 1/2 the regular cost of M.D.O. or is it going to keep me from makeing $66.00 per hr. being productive "selling" a job,supervising and "saving an employee from screwing up a job" or even "doing a job"
I have looked at my labor costs this way for years and noticed I started makeing a lot more money per day by not trying to save 5.00 or 10.00 bucks worrying about the material bills.
If you keep track of your time and weigh it against the money you save by "doing it yourself vs buying it done", I bet you only save maybe 20.00 per day, now think how much work you could have brought in or how many more jobs you could get out, with those extra couple hours a day(maybe another $300.00 worth of jobs in and out in a week). Thats almost a $15,000.00 raise you can give yourself per year, and your materials probably only cost $4,000.00 more that year !!
Its amazing how little we value our own "time" when we work for ourselves.
I'm not advocating "wastefullness", I watch my pennys, and the dollars take care of themselves.
But you won't find any of my dollars waiting on dimes !!
Roger(2-times myself)
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
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