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Hi Everyone, I did these maroon signs six years ago. Used something like Pratt & Lambert paint (architecht specified). We all know how maroon fades so I coated the signs with 1-shot clear in the florescent can. They still look perfect except for one thing-lately some translucent patches are appearing on the face of the signs. I can scrape them off with my fingernail. Also did some grey signs to go along with and they are doing fine. Customer has tons of money and wants me to do whatever I have to do to fix the sign. Problem is only noticeable if you are up close to the sign. The signs are in this complicated framework and are freestanding. I don't really want to have to repaint the sign as it would require several trips and such. I am wondering if there is a simple solution, ha, ha! Has anyone had this problem before? Signs do get salt spray from the road (hey-this is Canada) and are always in the sun. Look forward to your replies. Hopefully you won't make me repaint the sign!!! Thanks, Heather Moodie Scott Signworks Perth, Ontario, Canada
------------------ Heather Moodie Scott Signworks Perth, Ontario
posted
What has happened is the maroon has faded due to UV absorption. The clear that you used is a solar clear for extending the life of florescents which has no more that a 3 year life itself. When it breaks down it attacks the color beneath. The maroon will be powdery and will scrape off easily. At this point, a clear appied over the top will likely smear what is left. This sign needs a total repaint. Although it may lift and smear some, I would coat the entire surface with waterborne UV clear to seal it and provide a paintable surface. Then repaint and apply another coat of UV clear after. Follow up in 3 years with another coat and you may get double the life of the original job.
------------------ Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio Greeley, Colorado, USA kent@smithsignstudio.com
Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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Kent is right...but i think he misunderstood.....if the maroon is fine,which it should be,Pratt & Lambert is a higher grade paint than one shot,its equal to automotive paint....if youre getting patches like that that you can scrape off easily,the clear has reached "the end of its lifespan" so to speak and and is beginning to delaminate in spots and degrade. Salt could have been a cause if it found its way into a a pinhole and allowed moisture behind the original layer,but its more likely its just begining to degrade on its own. Ideally with that paint underneath,you should be able to sand the clearcoat off and reapply it,but if you've never done it b4 its easier said than done,believe me...I would rather see you redo the sign period if possible...Kent is right,waterbase stuff does make an excellent sealer,but if its starting to delaminate like that underneath,sealing it won't stop it,it will just give you a new surface to start on and you'll still have the problem underneath......and where its flaking like that its now a pourous surface,so even though you can't see it,you now have mositure,salt,oil from the road etc in there and the process will continue and get worse...best explanation is a stable rigid top layer over an unstable base layer..don't get me wrong,you can seal it and repaint but you're gonna be buying time more than offering a permanent solution. If the client is willing to spend like you said,give him the scenarios and redo it if possible and save yourself a headache and explanation in another 2years when its worse or happens again.
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I agree with Gavin and Kent, the sign will not last unless "completely" re-done.
Why not do it over in vinyl, maybe there is a reason, but if not you can up-sell this to the customer "as a sign that will weather the elements a lot longer" .
Just my opinion. Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
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Never ever offer a warranty on paint any better than the paint it goes on top of,...If the base coats are bad (existing sign) then any coats ya put on top of it are no better than the original paint.If it is failing then any paint on top of it will fail when it comes off.You could put the best paint in the world on top of that paint but if the paint underneath it fails the best paint in the world will stick to that paint that is falling off.Same goes for the clear coat if it falls off so will anything on top of it. Offer your client the option of a new clear coat which at best will last anuther year it is only gonna be a bandaid, or redo the paint job as ya did before & expect another 6 years.Be sure to include time for prep(sanding,scraping & spot priming any loose paint and or clear).Six years is a long time to expect any maroon to last outside unattended. ------------------ fly low...timi/NC is,.....Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC http://artistsfriend.com/signs
[This message has been edited by timi NC (edited August 02, 2001).]
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After all the posts about the strength and longevity of Clearcoat Pelucid? Geez.
My large murals, some of them in their 5th year now, are ALL coated with clear Pelucid. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE looks any different than the day it was applied, and you guys are singing the blues about clear failures?
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
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Heather it's time for a new sign, you may be able to add a few years to it, but maybe it's time to sell your customer a new sign thats just double coated.
You say the customer has tons of money, doesnt really matter, tell the customer that you can clean & clearcoat the signs for about half the cost of the original sign, but that it will only hold up for an additional 2 years, then give her a price on a new sign, with the cost of double coating built in, and let her make up her own mind.
Typically if the sign is in good condition after 1-2 years, everything else tends to be an "act of God" or a failure of the product, in which is the responsibility of the manufacture of the failing products.
I think 6 years was a good life, although it wasnt 12 years like some, did you ever advise her to wax the sign or how long the sign would last?
Kents right about the clear coat, The floresnt clear craps out on us here on the west coast in 2 years or less.
Give her the chance to make up her own mind, maybe you'll end up with another nice job with only one trip to deliver new signs, and end up with with a little extra money in the monthly budget.
Good Luck!
------------------ Ron Percell Percell Signs 707-769-0639 Petaluma, California
Just a thought. . . you didn't say how large they were but you said they're in a complex frame. Assuming they're flat lettered (not dimensional with raised or carved elements), it might be more efficient to make up new panels out of something thin like 3mil Dibond and glue them to the old faces flush with the edge where it meets the frame. It would save disassembly time on site and there's no down-time for the client.
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One last "Ditch effort" to save it may be to coat with XIM #100 clear primer/sealer. You may extend the life and if not, it'll already be sealed and primed for a redo. My 2 pence.
------------------ Robert "Bobby" Salyers Airbrush & Graphics Studio Clearwater, FL website:http://airbrushbobby.com
He put in your heart certain wishes and plans, in my heart he put other and different desires. Each man is good in his sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows.---Sitting Bull
Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Thanks everyone for all of your replies. Every one of them is valuable, as you mentioned some things I hadn't considered. Never even heard of Pelucid until last year and recently saw it at a car show. I do think I like Joe's idea to make a whole new sign. It will save me a lot of time, for one. Then the carpenters can worry about putting it up. Luckily I saved the pattern for this sign. Another question, do any of you rely on Frog Juice for a clear coat? I just started using it after Banff Letterheads and find it to be a very useful product. I am lucky that this customer doesn't care how much the sign (4x8) costs, just has to look perfect again. Wish all my customers were like that!!! Thanks so much and enjoy your weekend! Heather Moodie Perth, Ontario, Canada
------------------ Heather Moodie Scott Signworks Perth, Ontario
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