posted
Check this out, a guy who handles our trucking at the plant I work for wanted 2 ICC decals for his truck. These were going on 2 trucks,(he will install) he told me he was going to put them on the drivers side. (law requires it on both sides). Well, I went and cut them (12"x4") and when he came into my ofice at work, Igive them to him and he tells me he will pass later that day and pay me ($40.00) I was going to tell him that he had to pay me right then for the decals before I give them, but there were others in the office and I didn't want to embarras him, so I let him take them.
He never showed (this guy is well known for not paying people). Well, that was last week, I see him in the boss' office and turns out he messed a couple of letters on the decal up while applying. He tells me he wants me to make the messed up letters and then he will pay me. I told him that when he installed he was responsable, my boss even told him he ought to pay me, he said he will pay me after I make the letters. I couldn't tell him what I wanted to, so I said nothing and left because I didn't want my boss to get upset with me.
This man must be on crack! He parks his trucks near the plant so for lunch I took a stroll over to his truck and repoed my decals. He still has the other one on another truck that's parked somewhere else.
I figure this could go two ways, I could leave it like it is, or when he asks about what happened to his decals, I could get my money up front and be nice enough to cut him another decal, then I would wash my hands of him.
You know how after you do something like this, you wonder if you did the right thing? (I know I should be flogged for not getting a deposit) What would you do in this situation?
Thanks! Tony B
------------------ Tony Broussard
Best advise received: Don't take any wooden nickels......if you do...burn'em!
posted
I will bet most people will say you did the wrong thing and you should of worked with your customer and helped him out, maybe even install them properly for the guy.
I am sure you feel better this way and if he really is a bad customer what ever he does say about YOU to others wont matter.
------------------ Steve Eisenreich PC Bytes Cold Lake, Alberta pcbytes@telusplanet.net
Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Heheheheheee...now go find the other truck!
If the guy is well known for not paying, you should have your butt kicked for not collecting BEFORE giving them to him! You can't emberass guys like him!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
95% of all accidents occur immediately after the words "Hey...watch this."
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
When it gets to that point, I always use my favorite line from the movie Goodfella's.
$%#@ You! Pay Me!
hahaha
Seriously, if I didn't know the guy, I would not have let him have them originally. In the long run, isn't it worth the 40 bucks to know the guy will never ask you for another thing and you won't have the aggravation? unless you think he will try to badmouth you?
At least you didn't paint them on
MC
------------------ Mike Clayton MC Graphics Barnegat, NJ http://mcgraphics.visualnoise.com/ mike@visualnoise.com AOL IM: mcgrafix
"Youth and enthusiasm is no match for old age and treachery!"
Posts: 508 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Apr 1999
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------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Although it may have felt good, what you did was actually illegal. When you let him take the decals, you gave him possession of the goods and essentially you became a financier. He owes you money, but you do not retain title to the goods. Unless, of course, you have a contract which states that you retain title until the goods are paid for...this is why your car can be repossessed. I know in this case nothing would come of it, but I bring it up lest others get the idea of "repossessing" items of greater value.
What gets me is how these people can go around the community with their heads held high. I know people just like this and it amazes me.
------------------ Diane Crowther, Metaline Graphics Ltd., Nova Scotia, Canada, ID #285
posted
Reminds me of a time years ago...a lady ordered a sign from me. I delivered it..she said she loved it....I even helped her put it on her wall. She said the check would be sent. Well....weeks went by...I called....stopped in....she kept saying the check would be coming. By the 4th month I went in, smiled real nice and jerked it off her wall. It may be illegal...it may be wrong...but guess what? I didn't care. It was worth it seeing her jaw drop to the floor. Most people find out not to mess with me. I never heard back from her. Gee....and she was such a NICE customer.
------------------ surf or MoJo on mirc Cheryl J Nordby Signs by Cheryl Seattle WA.....! signsbycheryl@hotmail.com
posted
Legal is not always right. One sailboat guy clipped me about 20 years ago.He had a restored "R" class wooden sailboat ..bout 1920's vintage.I laid on my back on a scaffold as the transom had a steep angle on it..lettered the name and hailing port.Mosquitoes all buzzin around.I had no babysitter,so lil Jason was on the floor in a playpen.I hurried the job and even so..it came out nice.This all took place in early May. I sent bills,called..even approached the guy.No pay..This guy even ripped the fuel oil and electric folks..He avoided everyone.Then had the audacity to sit in an orchestra with lil kids at school and play the violin like he was a saint... It got to be around Christmas time.I had been stung by a few racers that year as well...I wanted to buy the kids some Christmas presents and the few hundred bucks owed to me would have been just right to add a lil more glitter to the Christmas tree. I decided that if I didnt get paid for my work...I wanted my One Shot back. I repossessed the paint all right! One Shot grabs to painted surfaces pretty good,so it was necessary to use the proper tools to remove it. I decided to use a nice sharp ice pick to loosen the paint and then use 36 grit sandpaper to finish the job. My.......what a mess! Its easy to remove lettering ...if yer determined enuff! The marina owner was rollin on the floor.Of course the boat owner had beat the marina as well for some money.The whole "marina community" heard the story and had a good laugh. Funny...every boat job for the next few years was always cash in advance...a choice made by the boaters,not me! Point of story....You can set your own rules where ever you want. Was what I did legal?No way... Was it right?.. It felt so to me at the time.
posted
"Legal" is what happens in a courtroom. "Justice" is what happens with freeborn Americans.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
Meanwhile....back at the plant, the guy calls me to tell me that a friend of his is sponsoring a golf tournament and wants me to do the hole sponsor signs. He also told me that if I give the friend a good deal, he will let me sponsor a hole for free. (he didn't notice the missing decals on the truck yet) He said he isn't involved in the tournament, but he's giving me the phone info on the friend that's handling it.
I took the opportunity to turn what first turned out to be a repossesion and used it to my advantage, I told him that I would cut a new decal instead of replacing just the 2 letters, and told him that he would have to pass by and bring me the money before I cut them. I told him I took them off because it was put on crooked, (you know, if someone asks him where he got the decals done, I don't want his crooked application giving me a bad name) so he was cool with it.
I figure it this way, I stand a better chance of getting paid and still come out ahead,(I know it's not a lot of money, but it's the principle that matters here,...then I can wash my hands of him). As far as the golf thing, I will get with the friend to see what's going on there, and of course I would have to get money up front.
Thanks for the responses!
Tony B
------------------ Tony Broussard
Best advise received: Don't take any wooden nickels......if you do...burn'em!
posted
Well....it certainly isnt necessary to take vinyl off in this situation....just simple science was at work in my case...i merely tested the lettered panels of the van for differentiating degrees of impact resistance by a ball peen hammer versus the unlettered panels,and as a control,a window...no conclusions were reached,other than once the test ended i no longer cared about the results by continuing to drive the van after the test period he proved himself to be so cheap that if it cost him .25 to take a dump he'd stick a cork in it and hold it till he was full enuff to cough...all in all i felt science was the right approach
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Seems to me that if one were to include within the terms of the signed contract (please don't tell me you don't get a signed contract) that ownership of the sign/banner/vinyl/paint etc. was retained by the shop until full payment was received and spell out that it is subject to repossession. If loan companies can repossess cars, why can't we repossess unpaid for signage?
------------------ Kelli Cajigas aka Janda Dolphin deSigns & Banners “A satisfied customer will tell two friends, a dissatisfied customer will tell ten.”
posted
Tony I feel you did the right thing as far as my opinion is worth. I want to relate to you what happened to me a few months ago. I was asked tho put the word "ENTRANCE" at The entrance of a Motel down my way,I meet with the lady on site give her the drum on size height width length position... she agrees to the price $180.00. On the the day I was to do the job she contacts me saying she is unable to be there & that I should talk to Bob who would be at the Motel I spoke to Bob who decides that the sign should be moved to the right which i duly did. Next day she rings me all in tears saying that the sign is in the wrong place and that I should do it again....How do you move a sign thats been painted on asphalt? so I say Bob told me to... Too bad she says, he had no right to... I say but you told me Bob was the man and so on. Needless to say I haven't been paid yet and like Tony I would like to repossess the sign but... the prob of the asphalt so I feel like going over & defacing the sign but unlike Tony I feel the Law would be on her side in the matter i.e. Posession being 9 tenths of the law.
------------------ Don Lopez Signs Signwriter Faulconbridge N.S.W. Australia 02 4751 2158
Posts: 80 | From: Australia | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Just SMACK EM! Tony and Don, you guys are hereby inducted into the International SMACK EM society. All members believe in SMACKING the crap out of customers like the ones mentioned above, to bring their otherwise small brains into understanding that it dont work that way! Course if they are bigger than you, you may want to consider something else.
Seriously, I deal with this type of customer at times, and it seems they like to think yo are an idiot, and they can do whatever they want. Tony, I've done what you did. Actually went to a guys truck and took all the vinyl off. I knew he wasn't going to pay, and someone told me he was even laughing about it. Who is laughing now? And Don, it sounds like your predicament may have been a set up. She tells you the guys in charge, you do what he says, and now she is giving you grief. SHe may have planned the whole thing. Make her pay.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
posted
Hey, you're a SIGNmaker right? Make a big-ass sign that says "SO AND SO DIDN'T PAY FOR THEIR SIGNS" or "SO AND SO IS A DEADBEAT, DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THEM".
The embarrassment alone should make them ready to cough up the dough. You could make a sign with interchangeable name plates for all the inevitable deadbeats you're likely to come across.
A big thumbs up to everybody who had the nuggets play the repo-man(or woman).
Well, the guy paid me what he owed. I put his other decal on (the one I was holding for ransom) and everyone's happy. Now this doesn't mean I trust the guy, IF he ever asks for me to do another job and IF I decided to do it, it will be of course money up front.
Thanks for all the responses, I have been hanging out here for about 2 1/2 years and have learned a lot by listening to all of you fine folks. You know, I take this little incident and look at it as a valuable lesson learned, sometimes you need a screwing to get yourself in check. This was mine.
Thanks All! Tony B
------------------ Tony Broussard
Best advise received: Don't take any wooden nickels......if you do...burn'em!
posted
Good evening, All-- I guess my take on all this is considerably different than the way most of you seem to feel. I got burned pretty good a few years ago on a stretch van lettering job. I had done two previous jobs for this guy, and been paid promptly, so I had no reason to think it would be any different on the van. Wrong! I eventually took him to small claims court, got the judgement by default-- he didn't show-- when I filed with the county clerk, that was when I found out that he not only had a string of judgements against him in this county, but the same thing in two other counties. He had made a career out of milking the system, and had learned it from his father who had done the same thing all of his life. Getting a judgement does not mean you will ever see your money. Since I felt I had a lot of company in the "being S-----d" department I don't feel too bad. For whatever it is worth, in almost forty years of being in this line of work, I've never worked with a contract, or asked for a deposit. I feel a handshake and one's word should be enough, and 99.99% of the time it has been. The .01% was the incident above, and even with that I haven't changed the way I do business, nor do I intend to. I guess what it comes down to is this-- life is just too damn short to let people like this get to you. In the long run, they will get theirs.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I like your take on things. It's encouraging that someone can do business in a friendly, trusting manner, and still do well; as long as you don't let the stiffs get to you. I guess that's the key, really, is keeping your head up when crap like this happens. Because, in my limited experience, it seems that your 'statistic' is pretty accurate: 99.9% of people you deal with are just like you and I: trustworthy-hardworking-regular-people.
I don't make customers sign contracts; I mean, I get signatures on artwork and stuff, and I get a deposit on most stuff, and definitely on stuff I can't afford to eat. But I like to trust people, just like I like people to trust me. So far, I've met trustworthy and un-trustworthy types, but the trustworthy ones make up for the few bad apples.
posted
In my business I always receive a 50% deposit....this helps to keep most people on the right track...Works for me.. I also like to live by an old "Chinese Proverb" that literally says...." If you set on the river bank long enough...the bodies of your enemies will float by" I have saw this come true several times.. Shep'
------------------ Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep Oak Island, NC shep@ec.rr.com http://artbyshep.homestead.com/index.html " As long as they say your name, you will live forever"
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