posted
just some thoughts on digital printing... it seems the only ones really convinced digital prints (thermal resin, inkjet) are durable are the manufacturers... it amazes me when someone that wouldn't dream of using intermediate vinyl on a vehicle will plaster it with "maybe" 3 year prints... alot of the effects I've seem my competition doing could be better accomplished with an airbrush or even a can of krylon... a better design is better than a better machine... yes, I do have a thermal resin printer, and it IS cool, but a huge investment that micro-sized shops (like mine) should make darned sure it will pay for itself a bunch of times, don't take the salesman's work for it...
------------------ John Papenheim Papenheim Sign Fond Du Lac, WI.
Posts: 18 | From: Fond Du Lac, WI. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think you may be making assumptions based on your local area. In some places, there are no "airbrushers" or "handpainters" anymore.
The digital replacment of that craft and artistry is the only option available.
Now, as for durability, I have seen 1 shot paint fail in 3 years and not only that, I have seen customers damage their aribrushed graphics, and the fix is never like the original.
With digital prints, you can knock out 20 trucks and vans for a company with the same identical "digital" art work, replace it if it gets damaged, and provide it for a fraction of the cost it would take to hand airbrush.
Advertising and identifcation markets "think" digital already. The market already accepts the fact that 3-4 years is the life of digital prints, 2 in some cases. The same customer is looking to replace their vehicles in 3-4 years anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
As for real estate / job site signs, a 4 x 8 sign gets way more attention with a digital print of the proposed building the contractors are working on. Those signs only have to last 1 year. Tap into that market.
If you have digital equipment, then you need to think in digital and stop comparing it to hand painted or hand airbrushed longevity. Its a different market, its a different look, it has more variety of options, there are tons of artists out there working up full color artwork you will never have time to produce on your own. Just like the tons of black and white clip art was made available years ago, that is all changing to wonderful full color digital "airbrushed" clip art.
The digital train has pulled out of the station, it is nearing full speed, and it is going to run over anyone who thinks they can stand on the track holding a stop sign up in protest yelling: " I think my airbrush does a better job!" you're right it does!.... ITS JUST THAT THE MARKET DOESN'T CARE ANYMORE!
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited July 18, 2001).]
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dave, I should clarify, I've got some of the stiffest competition in the country.. (seriously there are some great shops here). Some use the digital technology right, some don't. There are a couple guys who aren't even cutting vinyl yet, and doing just fine. I'm just saying 10-30,000 $$$ is alot of money to pay if you're just fading a race car number from purple to pink. If you've got the market for those digital prints, and it will pay for iteself, great, go buy one!! (I did) It seems the manufacturers tell us we'll be left in the dust without digital, but there is living proof all over the place you don't even need a computer to succeed. Personally, I have made ALOT more money with my cheap (by comparison) plotter.
------------------ John Papenheim Papenheim Sign Fond Du Lac, WI.
Posts: 18 | From: Fond Du Lac, WI. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dave, if there are no airbrushers or hand painters the trade has obviously been lost in your area.Thus How can you be assured that the one shot was used or applied properly in the first place? Was it lettering or bulliten enamel?
------------------ fly low...timi/NC is,.....Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC http://artistsfriend.com/signs
I do hand-painted lettering and airbrushing and painted pinstriping WHEN I'M FORCED TO!
I have a plotter, a colorcamm and an inkjet, and I'm so busy I can't hardly stand it! 50% of everything I do is digital, the rest vinyl! For me that's wjhere the money is!!!
------------------ Bob Burns Bob Burns Signs
1619 Oregon Ave. Prescott, Az 86305 1-928-778-5879
Posts: 2121 | From: Prescott, Arizona, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well there is certainly a place for digital, vinyl, and paint. On most of my jobs I try to use solid panel ares with maybe a quick texture or something in paint. Slap on some vinyl and some digital and its a winner. I get out the airbrush all the time for quick fades and bevels on text but if your talking about a letter with a fade, outlined and offset outline you cant beat the digital for fleet work. One of a kind high end stuff I still get out the airbrush (what is the resolution output on an iwata anyway?)
------------------ 425-898-9817 Brian Stoddard Expressions Signs Sammamish WA
Posts: 790 | From: Redmond, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
There you go again Dave, you said it yourself, undercutting us artists who still hand paint and airbrush. " At a fraction of the cost". Why should two truck doors cost any less because you printed them? I don't care if you print that's your deal. But at least keep the prices where they should for the good of the trade.
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Digital isn't necessary, but can enhance one's look if done right and make intricate work easier. I'm personally doing quite well with no digital work at all.
Dave's right in this regard. If you have a digial printer, think digital. If you don't, you CAN sell what you personally do. People tend to sell what they can output.
Dave, no offence, but it's offensive when you keep pointing out in a round about way that we'll all sink if we don't run out and get that digital printer NOW. It simply isn't true. Yet.
posted
Before I got my Edge I also thought digital was dumb, But now I use it all the time. I printed a sign on white vinyl today and slapped it down on aluminum to eliminate any weeding.
I have my trusty airbrush calling me from the other room, says we hasn't seen me lately, but he will when the time arrives. before my airbrush I used to blend by hand. Now I blend with a computer.
I am doing a job now that contains 6 portraits all in black and white on each sign.
We are to do 6 of them, anyone want to paint 36 portraits in photo quality for bus advertising. I don't think so!!!! It doesn't have to last even 6 months. The disk came on a CD and was pretty much set to go.
I love my digital tool and my airbrush and my quills. I choose the right tool for the job.
This spring cam & I painted a ball field all by hand, today I stuck some vinyl and ran some edge prints. As well as quoted some gold leaf on glass.
Versatility is where it is at!!
Paint a customers logo on his brick building and then Edge print his pick-ups....all 100 of them ( just an analogy )
Dave has the right idea!
------------------ Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA bob@creativesignworks.com
"Some people's kids"
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've live on both sides - paint & digital. I grew up and cut my teeth on using a quill. You could say that I started my "digital" education with the ol' Gerber Signmaker-3.
That said, I don't think digital will ever replace airbrush or hand-lettering. But, it is going to consume a huge portion of the market that airbrush/hand-lettering used to enjoy.
I'm not insinuating that everyone should run out and go digital. But, I do think that everyone should be prepared for the digital market to some degree.
I understand Rob's concern about "undercutting prices." But the fact is that when any sort of volume is concerned (such as 20 vehicles as Dave mentioned) your corporate clients are going to shop price and method. The fact is that before "digital", screenprinting was the method of choice over hand lettering/airbrushing fleet graphics. And, the screenprinter could and did it cheaper than the "hand artist."
I guess the question would be why are you in business - to make signs or make money. The fact is that a digital shop can do it quicker and cheaper and still maintain a higher profit margin for the time spent. Simply said, you make your money by how fast you can turn it.
posted
Naturally if you have volume either screen printing or digital for multi color work is just fine but for job satisfaction and a one off job nothing beats a nice handcrafted piece. I sometimes get tired of seeing perfect work. The small defects in a job are what make it stand out as a one off and the beauty and appreciation of what goes into it shines through. Digital is lovely to look at too but is it ART
------------------ Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesig@dingoblue.net.au Downunder "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life" - Confucius
Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i was thinking about this topic this morning, as i was sanding and coating out some MDO. there is a big investment needed for a digital printer... and the laminator... and the supplies... and the constant upgrading of software and hardware. i'm delighted.
i figure that the "quickie sticky" shops will all go digital (is that part of the franchise start up equipment already?). the poor minimum wage guys they now hire to stick vinyl will learn how to laminate digital prints. pretty soon they wont even use painted boards - just alumilite or PVC in whatever colors the distributor stocks. that will take care of the low end of the market, and will leave the "custom" market WIDE OPEN.
and by THEN i might actually be able to use a brush and cash in on the small, but highly profitable niche.
that's my fantasy, and i'm sticking to it. until then, i'll source out any digital prints and avoid the hardware/software treadmill.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I'm sure the last buggy whip shop was the bussiest shop ever in a continuingly narrowing market. Now before you fire an arrow into my heart for saying that let me explain. Custom work will always be around.
Digital printing does not mean cheap or quicky sticky. Digital printing is the new medium in which most shops will make a living in the really near future.
I see it already, the younger generation has never even seen a sign painter for the most part, they don't care! They like plastic, they like vinyl, THEY LIKE DIGITAL.
It's the IN thing for them, you may just cut car stickers for them now but these base pounding, honda accord driving, pierced individuals are the next wave of business owners.
Very few people would even conteplate paint on their vehicle any more around my neck of the woods. It's "permenant" oh my, I can't remove it? What if I change my mind? what if I sell it? Like it really matters, I would rather paint than press buttons all day long too, but I like having my feet on both plains.
And I like being versatile.
Most of my customers would not pay me to airbrush thier bulldozers but they will pay me to print out edge prints and letter thier bulldozer.
Extra money I didn't have before,
I look at digital printing as an enhancement ot my business, not a replacement for the work I already do.
I recently had a guy come in, he had a nice old MAck dumptruck, that was beautifully hand lettered years ago by another sign painter. the Mack was his fathers so it was special.
His new truck was a " throw away" truck so he says. " I just want vinyl" he says "Idon't want to spend a lot". So I told him I could give him the same design he had on the mack, printed on vinyl for a "reasonable price". He went for it, was impressed to say the least. and extremely happy. I turned a basic job into a custom job by using digital printing.
Sorry to ramble, but in closing I will say one thing, the most important reason for me to print more than paint is my health. I am 35 with some respitory problems. I have been painting since I was 24. In ten years I don't want to be strapped to an oxygen tank. I love signs but I love life more.
------------------ Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA bob@creativesignworks.com
"Some people's kids"
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I don't own any digital printing equipment but I do use my friends EdgeII on occassion. This isn't just a quick and easy thing to do. There is a lot of drawing, editing, color adjusting, etc. You must still have some type of artistic skills to have good looking work. I am saying this because some seem to think that you are not an artist if you do digital printing. We don't buy the artwork, we design it.
The most profitable job I have had since I started in January of this year was a logo design and decals that I printed on the Edge for an excavation company. I am proud of that design and find it fulfilling, just like those of you who paint and find it fulfilling!
Things are changing and in order to keep yourself afloat you must change as well. The so called mixed media signage is what will impress and most likely make it for the long haul.
Just my 2 cents worth!
------------------ Amy Brown AMBO Design Lake Helen, FL jabrown@cfl.rr.com
"If only my toddler was better with paint & computers!"
Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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