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The posts about business is interesting to me, thanks for all the insight, people. I wish i knew how to run a business sucessfully, maybe I can learn something here. I think the biggest thing missing for me is the guts to take the risks. I know I'm not a salesman, so I rely on word of mouth totally. I couldnt see myself going out and looking for work to do, but if I had a full time business, I might have to. I REALLY respect those of you that do. The closest I came to running a business was being a manager for a body shop for a few years and I hated it, but I was loyal to the owner and he needed help, I lost a lot of income those years and went home with a headache many times. I did learn a/r, a/p, proffit margins and such, but I didnt like doing callbacks to get work. As a matter of fact the very first person I called on was sleeping after working 3rd shift and I pissed him off for waking him up.
Ive been airbrushing, lettering, painting graphics for a long time but only do it in my spare time, which is very rare anymore. I've never lost the love for it, and probably never will. Especially since going to a few meets. Even if I did decide to do it full time, I wonder if I would get burnt out or start to work for the $ to pay the bills. For me, it is very hard to give a price on a job because i allways get carried away and do more than I should for the price I quoted. I guess I should keep records of how long it takes me to complete jobs, so I can realize how to charge for my work, but that takes the fun out of it. I do understand that I am way underpriced, but as I said , I'm not a salesman, can't seem to get there. Anyone got any good advice? Maybe I need a swift kick in the ass to wake me up.
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HiYa Rick; I have learned that you have to be willing to fail first in order to succeed later on. Come on down to the Duck Soup Splatter Jam and I will SHOW you what I mean! hope this helps
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, If you think you need a swift kick, then you are still not ready to take the dive, or like they say, "kick your own". Is it the insurance crud you are worried about? I bet it is. Your work is excellent. Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm a blabbermouth so it is easy, but only because I believe in my product and know it inside and out. The word no, just gets me thinking about stirring up business elsewhere, and who knows, the "no" folks usually mean "I don't "know" your product, please tell me how it can enhance my life or biz, is all that they are saying..." Kick me if I am wrong! (just kiddin) Check out the insurance companies online or maybe group together with a few other artists to buy group insurance. Then be your own entity within that group! Just a thought to cure those insurance blues...
------------------ Deb**Creative Signs (and more)
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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I'll say one thing Rick, you are a heckuva talented artist. Your style with the airbrush is different than most. Start pushing yourself to do more work. Man, you could do some great stuff. The pics on your site are great. Pat yourself on the back for me.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
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rick do this...since you have a lot of work to do..and iam assuming you do stuff a lot cheaper then you should...next job you get asked to do price it like you where ..hungry and needed the money to pay your bills..this will give you an idea of how it is to be self employed....and for a simple pricing scale quote your price at $10 a sq. ft. real simple..if you do a wall thats 4'x4' quote it at $160, 4'x8', $320....as for bike tanks and fenders and tailgates...$200 minimum.... then see if you still get the work....and if your swamped with those prices go for $15 a sq.ft. and bike tank $300 fenders $300, tail gate $300....my friend in sarasota "magic brush" gets way more then this for this kinda work..
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sounds to me like you mostly need a big dose of self confidence.
Underpricing is something we have all been guilty of when we start out. All of us get wise after we get tired of working for nothing.
Wrting your time down to get a fair estimate of hours is a great idea... don't make a big deal out of it. But when you do it include everything including the trips to the paint store and all. THe total time will surprise you and may wake you up to what your work is really worth.
I found that having employees as we got bigger made this step absolutely necessary. It wasn't just time I was losing then but real money as I was paying them, even for time I didn't get to bill.
Once you get over the money part of the equation you can then concentrate on the creative art. And believe me that little bit of hassle is well worth it when you get to work at what you love ALL day instead of doing some other job you don't like as much so you can afford to do what you love.
Word of mouth is still the best (and only) form of advertising we do. I would much rather deal with someone who wants my work and comes to me than someone who I am trying to "sell" on a job. I like to be in the drivers seat on my jobs and find that if I can afford to decide who I take on as a client (and they know it) they are much more respectful of my abilities and prices.
Good luck to you in your business!
-dan
------------------ Dan Sawatzky Sawatzky's Imagination Corporation Cultus Lake , British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.ca
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Hi there The inability to make sales by approaching businesses in person or on the phone is a common one. Whe we first started I spent a morning cold calling, hated it and was bad at it. My wife started calling businesses on the phone then stopped after a few, didn't like it. While most of our business is word of mouth we still need to stir the pot at times. By bulk mailing flyers to businesses we don't have to make a direct approach. The business phones or comes in to to see us, and that's completely different to cold calling. We are not trying to sell ourselves but are now trying to satisfy a client's needs. Kerry Wright Gladstone Australia
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Posts: 119 | From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia | Registered: May 1999
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I had an employee that told a friend that whatever amount of money i needed that day that somebody was gonna buy a sign that day that cost at least that amount. he felt sorry for anyone that came by if i had a $10,000 note due. you just have to ask for it.
------------------ Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 164 Poplar Rd. Commerce, Ga 30529 706-335-2348 Fax 706-335-3378 icq#11718273
Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Perhaps you need a salesman? Someone that can hand you the jobs and deal with the customer and take a commission? You could be one of the many products represented?
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's clear you've got the talent and skills, but being self employed (or "flying without a net" as my brother likes to call it) isn't easy, and it's not for everybody. It's that simple.
Perhaps you can get hired by a sign company or some other type of firm that can use your skills. Another approach is to hire yourself out as a sub-contractor. It's much easier (in theory, at least) to show your work to those who can truly appreciate it and know its value than to try and convince the great unwashed that you are worth what you're asking. Or it may be that what works best for you is to take work on strictly a commission basis.
You obviously love doing this and you're good. Take a little time to think creatively about all the different ways you can make some money doing this. You may find that something other than self employment is a better fit.
Good luck!
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Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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Man, it's like you wrote this by reading my mind. You sound just like me down to every last word (experience, talent, part-timer yearning to be a full-timer doing what we love most,lack of sales confidence, etc.). I really appreciate you posting this and thank you to all who commented. You not only helped Rick but me also. I won't go into the kind of work I do 'cuz all you gotta do is read Rick's post. Especially the underpricing part. Thanks!!
------------------ John Cordova Screaming Beaver Graphics Albuquerque, NM jcordova@cabq.gov
Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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