posted
For those folks who work with paint and brushes, perhaps the time has come to designate that fact, somewhere in your business name or advertisements. I recall a conversation that I had several years back, with Bill Beckner who's shop van proudly proclaimed in gold leaf, that Bill indeed was a Signpainter. He deliberately chose that term to distinguish his chosen method of work. The term "Signmaker" or "Signcrafter" or even "Joe's Signs" really says nothing about "the method" used to produce said signs.
There is some value attached to the fact that you can and/or do produce signs using a brush and paint, and that you are indeed a "Signpainter". What do you 'Heads think? From a marketing or identity perspective, is that designation now more important than ever???
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
posted
I dunno, Ken. We do the whole schmear, vinyl, airbrush illustrations, engravings, carvings, painted signs. I was never able find a word to convey it all so, ST.Marie Graphics. I've always marveled at the use of the word "graphics". In my day that word meant you were an illustrator, a wielder of brush and lampblack, a freehand designer, a commercial illustrator. Now you buy a computer, add the word "graphics" and PRESTO!! Instant "artist"??? Hmmmmmmmmmm
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
I remember when there were lots of sign painters trying to come up with a better term that sounded more professional. I knew many that went with Sign Artist, or Signwriter. Seems many people associated Sign Painter with " talented guy, but drank too much". We all know people till this day that like to tell their experience with the previous sign painter.
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com
Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Here's what it boils down to as far as I am concerned. " That was then and this is now" I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to have any kind of sign business at all. It would be ideal to see more thought and less hurry to bangin' the banners and pvc signs out just to make a buck. There is more than ample opportunity available for all of the sign "TRADE" to build a decent collective attitude toward good design while making a profit. Many times I have been asked to help on a special project for a "Fast" sign store and discovered that those in charge have really not allowed time to make good choices when it comes to design discoveries. So it goes. That does'nt make them any worse than the former talented wino stigma of the past. BUT.... as far as a designated term of Image for your Profession goes. I think ( here's my two bits ) Professional sign painter, has a nice ring to it and says it all. Now for those who have actually been under the employ as "journeymen" or women, that can be a lateral profile to identify with. The signmaker, of today should be wearing as many hats as possible to keep the Professional look and atmosphere working so that all clients old and new have unlimited choices at thier disposal.
Thas'it, ..........CJ
------------------
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Dana Aaron
unregistered
posted
I just go by the term 'Rocket Signtist'.
Hey, it says so on my business card...
------------------ Dana Aaron Sign-A-Saurus Nevis, MN (218)652-3839 ICQ# 37949659 www.sign-a-saurus.bigstep.com
Two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do.
posted
That's a GOOD one! Rocket SignTist! I definitely believe you. It says so on the card. :^) Anyhoo.......who cares about titles if you're makin' moolah??? :^)
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
i did a stock car the other day...and the guy told me to put my name on the car...well i cut me a small 6"x12"...with A SIGN MINT 944-5060..and above it i put LETTERED BY A SIGN PROFESSIONAL! just so all the other vinyl jockeys can see how much better painted numbers look......in 3 colors!!! and on my cards it says HAND LETTERED......
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
[This message has been edited by old paint (edited July 15, 2000).]
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
To address your question Ken, I feel it has great merrit to advertise that one still uses a brush in their work. I'd love to have that on my biz card. In fact, it's such an oddity out here, I'd either go flat broke or be filthy rich.
It would still be nice to have the ability.
------------------ Graphic Impact located in BC Canada gisigns@sprint.ca
Posts: 5630 | From: Yarrow, BC Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My marketing materials state; 'Professional Hand Lettering' and 'Computer Graphics Expert' As fast as the industry changes I don't think we'll ever find a word or phrase to denote it all for those of us that do a diverse range of services for our clients. Yesterday I cut and prepped panels for some small jobs, made layouts and cut the vinyl, today I'll be doing photography for a clothing catalog and next week hand lettering a propane tank. In the past thirty some-odd years I've searched for an identity from a starting point of Elliott's Sign Shop to Elliott's Sign Company to Elliott Signs to Elliott Sign & Design to now just Elliott Design.
I've come to the conclusion that it really does'nt matter WHAT they call you as long as they CALL you.
------------------ Larry
Elliott Design McLemoresville, Tn.
If you can't find the time to do it right, where gonna find the time to do it over?
Posts: 486 | From: McLemoresville, TN. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We've had calls recently from customers stating " boy. I'm sure glad to have found someone who still does hand painting the Old-Fashioned way." Among the proliferation of alternate methods of signmaking, there are still those who prefer their work to be done in a "traditional" fashion. I guess that being somewhat of a "dinosaur" has it's value, and the methodology of production should be promoted. Brush painters in this area seem to be "in the minority", and becoming increasingly so.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
posted
hey louis..we got someone on here that goes by sign-a-saurus...our own dana arron....and si is brushasaurus.....and me old paint....hehehehehehehehehehe..it ok tho when where gone they will have figured out how to put vinyl on brick and concrete.....
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I stand in awe of many of you on this board. Your skill and talent proceeds you. May the art of the brush never die.
But unlike many of you, I never had the opportunity to "sit at the feet" of a "sign-writer"...Indeed I had only the benefit of seeing the work of a couple of local amateurs that refused to share pointers with a "kid".
I don't mean to say this to sound like I am belly-achin', but I came from a home where my dad, with very little education, was a "self-made man", owning his own business (a body shop/car lot) and retiring at 50. He had no interest in my "worthless art junk", and expected me to do something PRACTICAL.
As a teen, I was hard pressed by this, and made the decision at 15 that I would paint signs. Not just because I liked to do it, but also because I could make MONEY doing it.
I was NOT a great sign painter....but I got to be as good as the local amatuers....I went on to college, majoring in ART (much against my dad's wishes). From there I went to work as staff graphic artist for a large sign company. After working there for a little over a year, I made the leap out on my own to form my own company, MASTER'S TOUCH. It has been nearly 9 years, and three buildings and thousands of signs later, I still can't say I am a GREAT sign painter...maybe not even a good one...BUT I AM a GREAT designer, and I would go toe to toe with anybody on that score.
With that said, it really pains me to see some of the things that some of the"masters of the brush" have said on this list...the air of superiority that some of these posts exhude....yeesh guys!
I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one greatly admire the work of great hand painters.....I just do not understand why that can't be mutual. I am NOT some HACK with a quickie sign shop. I am a professional graphic designer that day in and out produces insightful and powerful graphics for a growing customer base; why just recently the local telephone company adopted one of MY DESIGNS as their company logo--the first they have EVER had in the span of nearly 100 years!
The bottomline is simply this: just because a guy (or gal) has not had the opportunity to become a master with a quill or fitch does NOT mean that we must be denegrated to some "lower echelon" of status because our methods differ from those emplyed by others.
I AM a journeyman sign designer, and there are many more like me, who have as much or more talent in our respective expertises as some of the "masters of the brush" out there.
I know this sounds like a flame, or a rant, but it is not intended to be. I just wish to level the field. We are an industry filled with talent and innovation...can't we all respect the variety of ways in which that comes?
Barry Branscom
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 Signs of Excellence!!!
[This message has been edited by Tasmus (edited July 17, 2000).]
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
No BARRY!! We're NOT gonna do that! I firmly believe in a class/caste system that elevates us "masters" above the common crowd. Those of you down below should delight in the glow emenating from those of us up above. THAT should have leveled the field! Hahahahahahaha......well, anyhoo.....there may be something in what you say. Those of us who ARE from the "old school" of artisans tend to cast disparaging glances at the computer world. I have two of 'em. My son and daughter run them, mostly. My daughter is learning the carving trade. My son's career, although he works here too, is in another direction within the recording industry. I'm proud of both of them, each in their own direction. You do what you do best as well as you can, BUT, Barry me boy, it's not realistic to expect that the old "painter guys and craftsmen/women" are going to consider the new wave of "computer guys/gals" as being in the same league. They aren't......BUT that should not mean a lack of respect for what you do. I'm sure your father is proud of you too. It's not easy to compete in this trade anyway, and you have to be pretty darned good too really succeed with computers alone. Maybe you aren't in that category, but that ability should not be looked down upon. So.........I sorta agree with you......sorta. :^)
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Hey Tasmus. Sorry if you somehow feel that this topic denigrades those who don't "paint". This was never the intention, but rather was more intended as a question as to the "importance" of advertising or promoting this fact in one's advertising/promotional material.
As I indicated previously, some people are expressing a preference for this kind of work, but when seeking out someone to do a job for them, are encountering a lot of shops incapable of supplying what they desire. Shop names or identities often are not specific as to the type of signs that they supply. Check out your local phone directory, and you may see what they're up against.
There may be some advantage to promoting the fact that you're experienced and capable of supplying "traditional hand lettering". I was simply inquiring if others were finding this to be true.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
All I am trying to say is this: There are many of us "newbies" that have as good or even better eye for design as the "old school".
And to lump all ALL the comp oriented professionals in with the"SIGNSSOFASTTHEY'REDONEBEFOREYOUORDERTHEM" crowd is just not fair.
We all know that for every "master" with a brush out there there are 15 or 20 drunks and or idiots that can JUST BARELY do a legible block font....but you know it is kinda like the animal kingdom--even the biggest shark has SOME little fish sucking scum off his belly.
There are "scum-suckers" from both traditions, but it is disrespectful to disparage an ENTIRE growing segment of an industry simply because of fear and prejudice!!!
YOU SIGN BIGOTS YOU. (heheh LOL JUST JOKING....sorta)
B
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 Signs of Excellence!!!
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ken---I wasn't pointing the finger in your direction--I understand your intent.....there are just--others who were/are using this post for the motives I am mentioning....
b
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 Signs of Excellence!!!
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
For the last 10 years I have mainly just been doing vinyl (seems like that is where all my checks are coming from!) However, I am going to put professional signpainter on my truck again (and business cards) I like the way it sounds and am extremely proud that I know how to handletter.
------------------ "surf" or "MoJo54" on mirc Cheryl Nordby Signs by Cheryl 206 300-0153 Seattle Washington
posted
Gee, I had no idea this site was just for the elite "Sign Painters". Maybe those of us that just build, decorate, install and service real signs should just move to one of those "Brand X" web sites.
------------------ Bob Cornett Beatrice Sign Company Beatrice, NE
Posts: 21 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: May 1999
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posted
We are all "elite" only in our own minds. The bottom line is the $$$$$. If you feed your wives, husbands, kids......you are indeed "Elite". The older I get.....the less I know. :^) "Don't go away mad.........just don't go away" :^) BTW......is ther really a brand X board?? Where?? ------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
[This message has been edited by pierre (edited July 17, 2000).]
posted
Hey... I totally understand where you're all coming from.
My shop's name is Sign-A-Saurus... mostly because I have this little dinosaur guy as my logo and I put it in the corner of almost everything I do. Don't laught at me, but I always do it in vinyl... don't really think I could paint it!!
I am in no way a 'saurus' at this... graduated outta sign school in 1997, so am fairly new to the sign business compared to alot of the real 'sauruses' out there.
I admire hand painted stuff tremendously and drool over the pages of AMAL. First year of school they completely stressed hand lettering.
But now I am on my own and most of the time I need to do vinyl because of the time allotted or its a vehicle or whatever. I try really hard to make my stuff stand out from the other shops in my area because of design, colors, different techniques, etc.
Nope, I can't just sit down and whip out a really cool script, or even just lay stuff out by hand. I could if I practiced ALOT, but I HATE practicing... cuz I want it perfect the FIRST time!!
I am a really good coloring book painter - I can fill in those pounced lines just fine!
I am very intimidated by the 'brush' guys that whip out really awesome lookin stuff. I used to feel pretty left out, but at the Mazeppa meet, so many were so nice and helpful that you couldn't help but get brought in.
I don't really think that there is a 'we' vs 'them' thing going here quite as bad as what some people may think. I think it is more like 'we (care about what we do and put out there)' vs 'they (quick, stick something on, get the money and run)'.
I totally applaud people who have the gift to do the great handwork that they do. I wish I could, but I am doing the best with what I have to work with right now.
I think the issue is pride in what you do. It's the pat on the back, the thanks from the clients, the WOW you did that?? which makes all the difference in the world.
So... if you really give a rip about what you're putting out there for your clients, then it doesn't matter worth a darn if its paint or vinyl or both.
------------------ Dana Aaron Sign-A-Saurus Nevis, MN (218)652-3839 ICQ# 37949659 www.sign-a-saurus.bigstep.com
Two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do.
posted
I'm on YOUR side, Dana! You may now bask in my glow! Hahahahaha.....what a load of crap, eh? Why do we take ourselves so seriously? Take way our clothes, brushes and computers and we're all just pasty white beings scurrying for the shadows. Whoah!.......heavy schtuff! :^)
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Being in the sign business for 18 years, I started out brushing and in the past 3 years have changed to almost exclusivly vinyl. Deep down I would prefer to use paint, but it is my experience, along with other long time signpainters in my area, the durability of lettering paint has decreased in recent years thus forcing us to use vinyl to get any sort of longevity out of our work.
Point being, I have recently re-lettered my shop truck and omitted the "hand-painted" from that and my letterhead, just going with Jeff's Lettering now. I personally believe most people either don't know or don't care how it is done and those who do seem to ask. That way I can choose what procedure would be best for each job.
As long as the layout and color choice is good, most customers don't care if it is paint or vinly.
------------------ squeger@aol.com "No you are not my only customer...do you really think I live on $150 a year"
Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I have been in the business for 30 some odd years and have known quite a few really good sign artist. i do mostly vinyl and screen printing now. most of the good sign painters that i knew were not very good business men, so they never got rich. i try to be a good business man and do as good of job as i can. if it wasn't for these computers we couldn't be posting now.
------------------ Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 164 Poplar Rd. Commerce, Ga 30529 706-335-2348 Fax 706-335-3378 icq#11718273
Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Barry, I've reread this string quite a few times now and just don't see where you are picking up the "air of superiority" from. Course, since I paint, I might not be able to pick up on it. I remember a few years ago, the us vs. them FLAMES. Now those were pretty obvious! There are certain feelings there on BOTH sides that the other side has a little trouble with. I think most folks on the board have come to a pretty good understanding by now though. I know I've gotten a ton of help over the years on the BB from "non painters"
As far as leveling the playing field, well thats never going to happen. There are just waaaaaaaaaaay to many levels in this here field. Glass gilding/gluechipping/sandblasting/carved/murals/bulletins/murals/airbrushing/pinstriping/vinyl/digital printing/screenprinting/neon/backlit/channel letters/print ads. I can talk all day long with folks about clear coating One Shot, but the lack of good redwood?????????? Total loss there, never have done a sandblasted sign. Do I worry that Pierre or Cam is going to look down on me cause I don't know the proper way to hold a chisel? Nahhhhhhhhhh, pick a spot on the terrace that suits ya and relax.
As far as the original topic, my cards over the years have resembled Larry Elliot's with all the name changes. I think the next time I get some made up I'm just putting Perkins real big and then listing what I do underneath. Something will change by the time they are gone anyway. Most folks can't seem to understand anyway. Did a job last Wednesday, guy said "I didn't know you did vinyl" next day I'm hand lettering one "I didn't know you were going to freehand it" I give
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I don't care if you want to sit at my feet and bask in the magnificent glow of a Brushasaurus... all I care is that I am well paid! Besides, I am getting too damn old to stand on some stinking pedistal.... I might get dizzy and fall off!
Paint vs, vinly vs. carved. vs. anything else doesn't matter! It's what the final result looks like!!!!! I know some "old brush guys" whose work sucked! I also know some "vinylguys" who do outstanding work! Same with carvers. If you are good you ARE good, and if your work sucks, guess what, it doesn't matter the method or medium. it still sucks!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
OH, YEAH?? well I don't give a damn about any of this. I have it on good authority that the 60's are going to return, so I'm gonna sit right here till it happens. Rick Sacks told me so and I BELIEVE him. It says so right on his business card. Hmph.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Sure glad I stumbled into engraving about 20 years ago. Don't have ta worry too much about who does what, or who don't........ But on this subject......I definatly state on my cards and other advertising, that I do Custom "HAND" Engraving...!!! In fact My jaws get real tight whenever I hear someone say they do engraving, when all they really do is put a few patterns into a pantograph machine and pump out the junk...!! Trophys and outhouse signs "AIN"T" engraving !!!!! Wouldn't think a thing about it though, if they stated simply, that they did "machine engraving" or signs, or anything else, to specify they were using a machine to produce the end result. But I've spent a lot of time learning my craft, and am proud of what I can do with simple hand tools....It's a small thing called "Skill"!! I like it when guys like Larry Elliot, and George Perkins, say they do computers and Vinyl work, and these two are among the best at it....... but they're both a couple of the best paint slingin', brush artists you'll find anywhere I guess what it boils down to, is.....work to be the best ya can, at whatever ya choose to do.........and be proud of your accomplishments, but don't try to pass yourself off as something yer not........ later..............CJ
posted
The satisfaction of the customer far exceeds the methods used in the making of the sign. Whatever your medium is, if you see a gleam in your customer's eyes when he or she first sees the product you can walk away with pride..It sure makes me feel alright.....Everyone can buy fonts, that are more than decent, from the supplier's list on this BB. I have done so..but if you feel better in hand painting...that's cool.... I love to brush a sign every now and then but you and I have to face up to the reality that there is a monetary value to labour and brushing signs the proper way is more expensive to the customer and customers get quotes.. You can have all the talent in the world and not be able to make a living. Some good artists have joined the ranks and are supplying the vinyl artists with some gar-darned good fonts. There is a reason for that!
------------------ Mario G. Lafreniere aka Fergie.
jnsigns@onlink.net Chapleau, Ontario home of "The World's Largest Game Preserve" Spring is upon us,in Shania Country. Farewell Snow, here comes the Mosquito!
posted
I've said it before, I'll say it again... It's between the EARS, folks. All the rest is tools and materials, and the good sign creator uses whatever works best for the job at hand. LE
------------------ LazyEdna in RL known as Sara Straw from southern Utah 5 National Parks within 3 hours drive Red Rock Heaven
Posts: 776 | From: Aurora, Utah, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hmmmm Signmaker or Signpainter, I sometimes catch my self choosing those words also. I learned this business painting, and I still paint so I geuss I am a signpainter, but also a Signmaker. Not every sign is painted nor is every sign computer vinyl, or wood , plastic... you get the idea. I just use the best tool for the job, but I do take pride in the craft of hand lettering and ever so increase my talent every year. I just got an account over a major shop in our area because I have the knowledge of hand lettering and paint. So It pays to know both sides of the fence. If your a vinyl only shop and take offense to this post then stop your squabbling and learn the craft, It is still a part of this business, Damn it is the foundation of this business, and if you think it is dead, then your missing the boat. just like I'm learning digital printing. Be the best at your craft. Take pride in it. Learn it inside and out and you will only feel inferior if you are.
We all agree that design is the most important tool, but if you don't know how to execute the idea, the best way possible, then you are just a designer and not a sign craftsman.
------------------ Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA bob@creativesignworks.com
"Some people's kids"
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I personally don't hand letter in my business, however I have some typography training under my belt.
I find with even this small amount of training, the end result makes a huge difference. I attempt to educate my customers enough so they too learn the difference and therefore are willing to pay abit more to get something done 'right'.
Everyone that knows enough to 'do it right' owes their customers this knowledge too.
I didn't find this a hand paint vs computer jockey post at all. I pride myself in knowing the small amount I do of what a hand painted font ought to look like, and continue to tweek the heck outa any font I manually type up on the puter to achieve that effect.
So, if you're one of the lucky ones that can do it with a brush in the first place, I'd certainly advertise that fact if I were you.
------------------ Graphic Impact located in BC Canada gisigns@sprint.ca
[This message has been edited by Donna in BC (edited July 18, 2000).]
Posts: 5630 | From: Yarrow, BC Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hey 'Heads! I think Edna hit it right on the mark. we make signs there for we are all "signmakers" a few of us make them with brush and pallete, a few of us use computer and cutter, a few of use use chisels and even sand to make signs. Graphics is a newer word used to discribe the product. "hand painted graphics" or "computer-cut graphics" either way doesn't matter much. Me, Myself?.... I would like to be called a sign artist, does that say anything about the tools I use? The new shop I am openning this spring will be called "Concept Graphics" with a tag line "airbrush • pinstripe • gold leaf" anything I haven't conveyed in that text will be left for the customer to assume.
------------------ -------------------------------------------------- "A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?"
posted
I am as shocked as any of you to be in such total agreement with LE... but she boiled the issue down to a couple of brief sentences that get the point across better than any wordy epistle on the subject ever could.
BTW, my business card says "Finest Kind SIGNS".
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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