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ok... another simple (?) question. i decided to give up on the coroplast (for now) and prep some little 2' x 3' masonite (hardboard) panels i found to use for my lettering practice. of course, every "simple" thing leads me into some new skill to learn.
what's the best way to prime and coat these? i used a foam brush (2-1/2") for the primer ("Z-Prime")and got lots of ridges that i now have to sand. should i have used a 9" foam roller? 3" roller? 3" bristle brush? the big roller seemed unwieldy for such a small thing, but maybe it would have been faster in the long run. Should i use the roller for the 1-shot white bulletin paint?
(if i every buy masonite i'll probably buy it primed and painted...)
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Scooter,...your best bet for practice would be the precoated masonite they use in shower stalls & bathrooms. It comes in white & off white along with several other patterns & designs for around $10 to $15 a sheet here.That way ya don't have to prime or coat it.If ya already got sum that ya want to prime & coat out, scuff it then prime it with a good latex exterior primer,two coats sanding between coats.Scuff it again then coat it out with a good bulletin or lettering enamel of your choice. There are dozens of different methods to get a good finish coat,from spraying to brushing.The end result is the surface you'll be practicing on so it's best to keep it as smooth as possible. hope this helps ya!
------------------ fly low...timi/NC is,.....Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC http://artistsfriend.com/signs
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Hi, again,Scooter-- May have to cut this short-- customer on his way. Don't know what z-prime is. Try Jay Cooke's water based primer. Good stuff. Foam brushes vary in quality. The better ones have wood handles, and a thin plastic layer between two layers of foam-- the cheapies lack the thin layer and get limp after about one or two loadings. Foam rollers are good - use 'em all the time. To kill the bubbles, drill a hole in the end of the roller cage, next to the handle. After you roll the coat on, place a nail in the hole so it catches and stops the roller. Drag across your surface and the bubbles break. For practice, one coat should be enough. This works best if the panel is laying flat, "tho I have coated both sides at the same time this way. To do both sides, you slide your panel off the sawhorses, lean it against a wall with a couple pieces of scrap at the top edge so there is minimal contact with the wall.Short pieces of quarter-round work well for this. They wont stay in place, 'tho unless you put a small nail in each piece of scrap. Put the scrap behind the panel towards each end, let the nail rest on the top edge of the panel, and lean it into the wall, and roll your second side. Same deal with the nail in the roller cage after you have rolled your paint. Good luck and have more fun than a body should be allowed.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
[This message has been edited by Bill Preston (edited July 06, 2001).]
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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use block out white(Kilz is good)or Bin Primer sealer) for a prime coat, and a good enamel for topcoat, scrape with the edge of a razorblade(single edged please) to remove any bumps or trash from the primer. Use a short nap roller for both jobs. Letter with oneshot bulletin Practice makes perfect Bill
------------------ Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud Third year Supporter of the Letterheads Website MailTo:twobeesusa@netscape.net
[This message has been edited by Bill Biggs (edited July 06, 2001).]
Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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HiYa Scooter;Glad to see you understand the concept of Pratice,Pratice,Practice.You won't regret it.You got a puter too!!Double the benifits.Is your practice to progress your brush manipulation for required strokes to accomplish different letter styles? or for the knowledge paint consistency when applied to different substrates?ie smooth, semi-smooth,rough,textured??(different brushes and handeling here) When I started out some 30 years ago(has it been that long?)the "practice"material was a window pane of glass(small)which I lay over letters I had already drawn out and or Printed Posters with REAL words(as opposed to just letters)Then painted directly on the glass,trying to stay in between the lines.Of course was able to wipe off to use over and over and over and over.Until I finally got it right. Good news Scooter,It ONLY took (25)Twenty Five years. Hope this helps
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Pat: i figured i had the masonite around, and so i'd practice with it. i'll pick up a sheet of glass and/or the shower stall stuff... once i get some money. (as you all know, starting any business is hard on the checkbook). although i do want to practice my lettering, my "basic" sign skills need to be developed too. i figure it will be a few years (decades?) until i can make a living with a brush. until then, i'll do vinyl and add brush work as i'm able. but even for that, i still gotta know how to coat out a panel - efficiently - before i stick OR paint letters on it. plus, i might as well learn the difference between painting on masonite, from glass, steel, wood, alumalite, etc.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Actually it doesn't take long to learn. Big letters on banners are easy to learn, small one stroke roman letters take longer.
However, the quick money with a brush is sword brush pinstripes on vehilces and trucks.
A month of practice with a mac brush and you will be pulling in some big money. It only takes a few basic strokes to learn, learn one pattern, add to it as you get more experience. The pinstriper in our area that gets most of the work has been doing the same stripe (looks like a bird wing) for the last 35 years. One freaking stripe with small variations for 35 years...what does that tell you? You can make $75.00 to $150.00 in half hour to 1 hour, not bad money while your plotter is busy working on somethin else.
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Scooter- Me and my sign buds have painted about anything that doesn't move. The panels are great practice. We have practiced on washers and dryers, the fridge, old piece of glass. Anything you can get your hands on, preferable free. As Dave said PRACTICE-PRACTICE. Good luck!
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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For practice material, my great uncle had me us newspaper. Turn the paper sideways and use the columns horizontally for your top and bottom lines. This worked great for making block letters about 2" tall. My uncle wanted me to practice my alphabet 1/2 hour every day. I practiced 1 1/2 hours everyday to learn faster. (hated my waitressing job and wanted to learn the sign trade as soon as possible).
Newspaper is a cheap practice material and I didn't have to spend time measuring out the top and bottom lines for the letters.
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Good Advice Pam,thats what I used for learning sword strippers where Dave is also right about letting the Machine make you money on the smaller mundane work always nesessary to the sign biz,all the while getting the brushes out for the more "custom" higher paying work! Scooter is correct knowing that he will NEED to know how to coat out BOARDS.That is exactly how I started(on the bottom)NOW I can make just about ANY board come out smooth as a babys butt. Keep up the good attitude Scooter and the practice.Keep asking questions here on the BB where there is just a wealth of knowledge available to all whom ask.
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Scooter, I'm not familiar with using foam brushes for laying fast primers or backgrounds that large. I fancy a roller myself, although I learned with a brush. The different techniques of background application provide slightly differing surface textures. Many are acceptable. They all feel a bit different when pulling lettering color across them. I think that some of the solvent in the lettering color bites into the background, and a textured surface will give a bit more drag. This can be an advantage because you don't get hairs wanting to slip. Try the glass to letter on for the slick surface.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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uhm,... thanks again for all the advice and support. to get back on topic a little bit...
so, should i "waste" a new 9" foam roller to just coat out 3 little pieces of masonite, or use a baby 3" fome roller, or just use the foam brush? the foam brush left a lot of ridges that i have to sand and the primer was more "fill" than "self-level".
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Hi Scooter, I cut my Tiz rollers in half when I just have a small job to coat out. And sometimes when I give a board 2 coats, I put my roller in a plastic baggie to keep it moist until it's time to give the second coat. In no time you will be geting your coats of paint 'as smooth as a baby's butt' like PKing!
------------------ surf or MoJo on mirc Cheryl J Nordby Signs by Cheryl Seattle WA.....! signsbycheryl@hotmail.com The person who laughs at himself will never cease to be amused! http://www.thisismycool.com/signs/
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Good noonhour, Scooter-- The ridges problem sounds more like a primer problem than anything to do with foam brushes versus rollers. Is that z-prime alcohol or shellac-based by any chance? If it is then it may be setting up too fast, and creating the ridges. Two other asides-- first Masonite isn't what it used to be-- the stuff being passed off as tempered wouldn't make the grade as standard years ago. The other tip if you haven't thought of it already is this. Get yourself a roll of 18 inch wide heavy-duty Reynolds-wrap aluminum foil to line your roller tray between colors. Two reasons-- easy clean-up, and when you are done with a color just fold the wrap over on itself so the color is inside, then wrap the foil around the roller to pull it off. Works best with 7 inch trays, the foil just barely reaches the edges of a 9 incher. Mostly, you just have to be careful that you don't poke a hole in the foil when you are fitting it to the tray. good luck.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Scooter Don't waste the roller after your finished priming.. Just drop it in a baggy with a twist tie and pop it into the freezer until the next time!
Take it out and let it stand until room temp and recoat your next project.
After it thaws out just roller the old paints on a newpaper and refill with your new primer or paints...
I also use Zinsser Prime... I like using 9 inch rollers so you can feather the primer out as you go along. Still needs a very light sanding and wipe before coating or lettering
Hope this helps!
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
[This message has been edited by Stephen Deveau (edited July 07, 2001).]
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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Hey Scooter! Buy either 9" tiz rollers (yellow & very, very short nap)or the black 9" foam rollers and cut them in thirds to fit a 3" roller handle. The key to z-prime is to thin it down jst a bit so that it will flow out. When you are coating out boards, give it a coat of paint, let it sit for a few minutes and then lightly roll back over it with just the weight of r\the roller, no pressure.
------------------ Greg Gulliford aka MetroDude Metro Signs and Banners 1403 N. Greene St. #1 Spokane, WA 99202 509-536-9452
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Scooter, I loke those 9" yellow IIZ twin pack rollers too. PSS has 'em at a pretty fair price if you buy them by the case. I also agree about thinning the primer a bit with mid temp enamel reducer and learning to work faster with fewer strokes. You can't do that as well with smaller rollers. Sanding between coats is a good practice.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Skootz", The best thing you might try learning first is IOAFS. which is a matter of principal,,, rather then tecnic.. BUT worth learning,,,,
While some find it attractive painting a babys ASS"". I find it more Luckative to "Kick ASS", on a project,,, get to the bank,,, Then go do what IS importent in life...like getting ONE...LOL,,,
The worse thing a NewOne can do is listen,, to "to much" advice fom to many well meaning well inflated, well ahead of where anyone would want to be and still be a part of natures plan... of living life to it's fullest...[Hang in there], dos'nt meen to CHOKE ON IT""...Twain,TBuk
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