posted
A while back a thread about brush nostalgia appeared here, and I asked then how many of you know painters who do all of it the hard way--- all the way from pencil sketches to lettering by hand and all without benefit of computers. Unfortunately, it was the tail end of the thread, and drew only one response that I know of. I know at least two of these people close by, and both are real talents. The point is, that neither will have anything to do with computers, therefore, no Internet, no Letterhead visits, and no sharing their talent and experience with the rest of us. I'm curious about how many of you in Letterville know signfolks like this.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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In Central Illinois there is one that comes to mind. Wyane Springer of Downs, Il. He does a lot of small sign work, but his love is lettering and pinstriping semi trucks, cars and vans. A good majority of the truckers in this area still want him to letter and stripe their trucks. He gets work from a 150 mile radius.
He can do two trucks a day easy for a take of $600 to $800 per day. He uses just a few lettering styles, mostly a script which looks real pretty but is difficult to read and I have never seen him use less than 4 colors.
He is not a "letterhead" type. He has been "distant" to me and other sign folk over the years, but friendly when I stopped in to see him.
He keeps to himself and no computer to speak of. He doesn't use pounce patterns that I know of, he knows his letter styles so well, he can perfectly do the layout while painting it between two lines. He is so fast it makes you wonder why we have computers and plotters. By the time we get the layout on the screen and the vinyl started cutting, he is done with the job and pulling in the next one.
If you have ever been in any truck stop anywhere in the U.S.A., his work is in that parking lot somewhere. I seen it when we went to Colorado, Florida, Arizona, Nashville, South Carolina, even TimBuckToo...just amazes me.
He also has had some exposure in older trucking magazines. Im not sure if his work has ever been in the sign magazines.
He pulls in work from the area south of Chicago, west of Indianapolis and north east of St. Louis.... that's a lot of grain hauling truckers!
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited July 03, 2001).]
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It does make you wonder sometimes as to these Lone Satellites out there.The few I know would NOT be Letterhead material anyway! These kind of people seem to be the ones that have always been the back stabbers,under pricers,painting in public falling down drunk,old "shakey" sign people that have given our trade a bad name and unfourtunely the only ones the "PUBLIC" has come into contact with.Don't get me wrong now as I was one of those in which I speak!A fellow sign painter turned me on to AMAL.There I saw the WWW to letterheads,from there my First meet,etc etc etc.In September I will be doing for my "other"local sign painters.What someone else did for me.That is to introduce them to the Letterhead Movement.I belive this is the key progress that starts by sharing. Hope this helps
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Oh c'mon now Duckie, you have gone too far. I for one know many so called lone satellites out there who never use a computer for design etc. As far as some you have mentioned giving sign painters a bad rep, that is so far fetched it makes me laugh. In all the years I've stopped at painters in the sign trade, they never even knew what the top of a can of 1-Shot was for and in all the years I've been striping I never used one of their trusty palette knives sign folks use to cut off the skin.
I could mention at least ten persons who do it all by hand, truck lettering, striping, logos, cartoons and everything in between. Ever heard of Glen Weisgerber, probably the fastest race car letterer in the friggin country and a perfectionist to boot. Knocks out a race car in less then two hours without pictures in front of him.
Even I don't use a computer to design with or a pantone color chart to see what goes colors go together and this high tech attitude that so many new persons have makes me wanna vomit. I'm not saying you are a newbie but get with the program, not everyone wants to socialize in person with so many persons that haven't a clue of what anyones real agenda is. Yes, meets are good for some persons but not all persons, not everyone wants to see their business go the way of the mom and pop store.
Do persons really want to see me at their meet. I'm a pot smokin, scroom eating psychodelic ol'hippy which gives free advice from this box as long as it does not interfere with my daily chores. i love drag racing and I hate Nascar and don't like to be around persons that don't race but yet wear shirts with photos of racers on them. Trekies make me sick also and act like they can learn everything from books. The sign trade in a whole is a friggin joke to me and find that most persons who take up signage after being a striper actually were never that good and certainly needed to add another program to their shoddy work.
Now you all got a mouse and a keyboard so take your best shot...
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
posted
I both admire and wonder about those who don't use a computer. I admire those who still make signs (and pinstripe) the old fashioned way, but wonder how they can get by. I have seen (and taken over) some of their accounts, as their small freehand lettering looked terrible, and their customers were very unhappy. I used to only handletter my signs too, and oftentimes wish signmaking was still done the old fashioned way as I find it much more rewarding, with an artistic feel. However some things such as very small lettering does not come out well handlettered. It is best to move forward as computers are here to stay.
------------------ surf or MoJo on mirc Cheryl J Nordby Signs by Cheryl Seattle WA.....! signsbycheryl@hotmail.com The person who laughs at himself will never cease to be amused! http://www.thisismycool.com/signs/
posted
I've stood and handlettered all day in the same spot, rows and rows of plant safety jargon, I got quite good at freestyle hand lettering, even hand lettered helvetica lettering. I was very glad to be able to lay it down for a machine that could work all night and not get vacation pay or insurance, or workmans comp. I have a sign guy here that only works for his habit, too. He took a lot of the work of a dear friend that passed away quite recently, by getting his phone number and answering the calls with a new name stating "formerly (the old name)" I am now getting those customers, as they are very disgruntled with his dependability and work quality. but of the 5 sign companies in our area, he is the only one that doesn't use computers. And I don't think he will last much longer. If you have the talent, they will come. I like the Letterhead idea, I don't really think of myself as a letterhead though, but in this day and age, those who don't help each other will be the dying breed. Not as Joey says it, In my opinion once the backstabbers get through stabbing, none of them will be left. Bill
------------------ Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud Third year Supporter of the Letterheads Website MailTo:twobeesusa@netscape.net
Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well Joey you sure have put it all out in front now. We know exactly who and what you are all about. ME ME ME! And everyone else sucks in some way or another. For the rest of you folks, Joey was born with a pinstripping brush in his hand. The rest of us are just a joke and never will any of us rise to the quality of Joey. Good luck Joey you're legend in your own mind!!!
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Bill, I've met a few who abide strictly by the "old rules" and do everything by hand,down to the preliminary sketchs and patterns.I can remember getting & having to use those pencil sketches week after week in the billboard shops.They are the primary reason I learned freehand layout skills that are no longer used by the majority in our trade,as once ya stuck them in a projector the pencil lines were 2" thick on the pattern projection. As for folks who still operate with just the basic tools of our trade on a daily continual basis & avoid computer aid,most that I've met are either "a" too poor to own one,and or consider the learning curve an impossile obstacle,..."b" so exceptional that they consider them totally unnecessary.Either way there is alot of folks out there who still do this type of work in our area & alot of them are quite proficient at our trade. If we are to benifit from the few who have found no need for the electronic aids available today then they may just have a tip,trick,or idea that all of us could benifit from if nothing else to pass on to future generations of tradesmen.We aren't gonna git there tho by stereo typeing the lot in a negative manner.I personally think there is alot of misinformation that alot of the newer generation of signmakers are producing to belittle the old fashioned trade practices in order to influence the masses for monetary gain,albeit to sell cas system's & supplies and or sell the end products.I see some of that mentioned here,which in itself kinda makes me wonder,... If I were to paint as sloppy as a digital print onna billboard,and or tell a future client what I painted would only last 5 to 7 years I would have either been fired or never got tha job in the first place.Back in "BC" we we're expected to work even if there was or wasn't any electricity available to ply our trade.I imagine the inuendo's implyed by some in this post is enuf ta make alot of them glad they don't use computer's,or keep them from coming back to share if they read sum of the reactions,...
------------------ fly low...timi/NC is,.....Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC http://artistsfriend.com/signs
Using a computer to make signs always seems to me to make as much sense as buying a robot to satisfy your girlfriend with. What's the point? If you love the work why switch to machinery? Just for the money? Now you've made it "Just another J-O-B." _______________________________
Hey, Rob; If the shoe fits...
_______________________________
Too big a learning curve to use one of these things? Chimpanzees can operate them. That's the problem - too many chimps in the sign biz, all with a plotter. And anybody who wants to call himnself a "Letterhead" may do so. My mom would ask; "If you call a sheep's tail a leg- is it?"
------------------ "If it isn't fun, why do it?" Signmike@aol.com Mike Languein Doctor of Letters BS, MS, PhD ___________________
You know what BS is, MS is More of the Same, and it's Piled Higher and Deeper here
posted
EVERY time that the puter vs. brush subject comes up....the venom starts to flow! Those that can, and do use both methods, are not part of the problem! It is the computer illiterates and the brush incapables! The sign biz started out with dabbing on cave walls with a stick, and progressed to brushes....a few years ago, computers arrived! They became a very useful tool, and those steeped in the sign tradition, did some wonderful things with the new tool! Many used it as an adjunct to all their other tools, since they had all the fundamentals of layout and design. Some even surrendered totally to the easy way to make a quick buck, but still put out good signage! Unfortunatly, along came a hole horde of 'sign wannabes' who had a computer, cutter and sign program...BUT no training in the fundamentals! Hundreds of fonts and a whole rainbow of colors does not automatically make a decent looking sign! The 'brush guys' hate the crap that these vinyl jockeys are foisting on the publick, and bitch about it! The 'sign wannabes' are jealous of the abilities of the 'ol' boyz'! AND all the rest of us are stuck in the middle of all of this foolishness!
If it doesn't stop...I am going to write letters to Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Earth First, PETA, and the rest of the radical organizations, telling them about the WASTED RECOURCES that vinyl signs produce! They will get them banned.... just like Freon, DDT, and the rest! Heheheheheeee...then we will all be back to brush painting!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanx Si..............I could'nt agree with you more, I am cleaning out my shop, moving soon, and found a bunch of drawing's.........Damn....I miss the creative touch.....my thought is to frame them for my new location and see if anyone now's what they are....lol
------------------ "Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most" Ron Norwood 6732 Raleigh Street Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1 Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899 email.hitest@mailcity.com
posted
I agree with Si. Alot of sign painters have used the computer to their advantage(i.e. speed on small copy). I've always said if vinyl is used correctly on a job, you should not be able to tell what is vinyl and what is paint.Personally, I don't have a computer for artwork. Everything is done freehand. But, I also am doing this part time. If I had a full time shop, there's no doubt I would use one.As Si said. it's a tool that in the hands of competant sign people can be very valuable.
------------------ Bob Elliott SouthPaw Signs Dingmans Ferry, Pa. 570-828-8909 southpaw@pikeonline.net
May be left-handed, but still not in my right mind
May be left-handed, but still not in my right mind.
Posts: 35 | From: Dingmans Ferry Pa. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I have to say that you comment was very foul and unfair.
Do you really think that striping a line is the answer to all sign work!
HANG ON BEFORE YOU GET HOT UNDER THE COLLAR!
Yes there is different types of Signage and some of them include.. Vinyl,Airbrushing,Handlettering,Carving,Sandblasting,Digital,Pinstriping,Pencil and Pen,Marker or Ink,Sculpting,Form or Frame...ETC ETC ETC....
So how is the rest of this industry a Joke in your eyes?
I mix all the mediums I can to produces a good image!
Somebody told me a long time ago if you listen to someone for 10 minutes,You get 1 minute worth of truth.
And Little by Little (Minute by Minute) you have all the wealth you will ever need!
My life and my business is not a Joke but only the way it is to were I live.
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Hi, All-- I am sorry that this thread took the turn that it has. I thought when I first posted the question that it was a fairly harmless subject. Guess I was wrong. Another in a long string of lessons learned; there are no safe or harmless subjects. Discouraging, to say the least.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
If those of you out there who don't like the use of the computer in the sign business, then how the hell did you post your one sided opinion ? Did you not use the computer to do so ? NUFF SAID !!!!!!
------------------ Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep Oak Island, NC shep@ec.rr.com http://artbyshep.homestead.com/index.html " As long as they say your name, you will live forever"
posted
Hello Bill, Ten years ago, I sold my computer and returned to what I do best: custom lettering done by hand. I had begun to feel as if every time I turned on the computer, my brain turned off.
I believe my work has improved dramatically in the last decade, and I am much happier with what I do. I feel more present and calm with my work, my stress level is lower, and I am able to create new designs and typestyles for each job because I am not limited by what is in the computer. In short, I have grown as an artist because I have to rely on my own power of concentration and memory and skill.
I have not advertised and I have all the work I want. There is a market for custom work, particularly with drag race cars. I make less money than I would if I had the machine, but I do ok.
I don't knock computers and I appreciate a job well done when I see it, no matter what the medium. However, for me, I am happier without it.
When I work by hand, I am constantly reminded of what I learned and felt almost 25 years ago when I attended Butera School of Art: That when we work with passion and present-mindedness and integrity, we are rewarded beyond our dreams. Thanks for posting the topic.
Bruce Deveau
------------------ Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 pop04667@tiac.net
Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Be it a brush or a computer. The secret is to mix and match both to suit Price, Productivity and Final Effect. I use both in the design and production of most of my work
No way am I going to hand letter 50 "Exit Signs" ... but then I can knock out a window "bash" on the spot to the customers requirements. Maybe this is what we have to teach the younger generation
Yes, I do know a signwriter that does not have a computer .. he hand letters Real Estate signs for a "living" ... but does the most unreal brushwork if given half a chance. Dragged him along to our Letterhead "Curtain Restoration" Meet and he loved every minute and was a fantastic source of information to us all.
------------------ Bushie aka Jon Butterworth Jonsigns old signwriters never retire ... they just fade into the background! Toowoomba,Queensland Australia.
Posts: 4014 | From: Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Public Appology--- I must appologies to Joey Madden for jumping all over him in this thread. Yes, I was offended by some of his comments but I must learn to keep some things to myself. Over the last day Joey and I have had a couple of nice e-mails in which we have gootten to know each other a little better. As I do believe we are from two different schools of thought I have to respect his point of view. I don't like to see this BB get nasty and I let Joey get the best of me. Sorry Joey and LH.
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Good morning, All-- back again-- I don't know how to start this response, but I guess the best way would be with my own experience with 'puters. Several years ago I found I was getting creatively stale, and dry of ideas for my work. I shopped around for 'puters and didn't care much for what I found in that most were loaded with software I would never use. Had one put together by a local "puter whiz and started the long and difficult journey to learn how to use the thing. Just turning it on and off could turn into a real adventure. At any rate, I finally got so I could get around in it without too many mishaps, and started finding all kinds of neat clip-art and letter styles that I would never have thought of on my own. I could work up a layout, print it out, and go paint the sign. No plotter or vinyl at the time. A couple of years later I got my first and only plotter, an Ioline Classic 24. Bulletproof. Then the real education, economically speaking, began. It didn't take long to find out that materials cost for any given sign was way higher than the same thing done in paint only. To this day, I still have a hard time figuring out what I should charge on some viyl jobs. Not wanting to carry this too far, I'd like to hear-- well, read-- your thoughts on this.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I think what you eat up in material cost you make up for in time saved. To me it's a wash in the long run. I for one do hate the waste and the many trips to the dump as others have talked about. I'm passionate for the paint but realize Vinyl is a nessesary evil. The only thing that I ask of anyone is don't forget your roots. This is a wonderful art form and should be preserved. When quoting jobs I look at my material cost which is easy with vinyl(cost it out by the foot) then I factor in my labor. Some things I will use the little pricing quides. I think if you feel you are making an honest wage and not trying to undercut everyone you will be fine. I have heard some use a formula for materials/labor/markup but I can't be bothered. my2cents
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Rob,as far as the speed issue goes paint vs. vinyl I find it's a toss up. Sometimes vinyl is way faster ie. six lines helvetica all one color, other times paint is faster, especially with the loose stuff, paint has an edge with the bigger stuff too, race cars with three color numbers and ads take less time with paint. I use the method that suits the job best or whatever the customer requests.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
You are right George but I was think when you get into outlines, drop shadows etc. But yes, let each job dictate what material you use. I've been trying to use more and more paint if I can. I just like pushing a brush around.
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I bought a 4b last year but it was destroyed in shipping. My materials therefore still are mostly some type of brush and paint. One day when I get a cutter, then I'll have more of an opinion of both side of the fence, but still, there are plenty people around me though who don't even own a puter.
------------------ Robert "Bobby" Salyers Airbrush & Graphics Studio Clearwater, FL website:http://airbrushbobby.com
He put in your heart certain wishes and plans, in my heart he put other and different desires. Each man is good in his sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows.---Sitting Bull
Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
well, i built my computer from loose components and wrote my own plotter driver software. does that make me a more pure computer user than Joey who just uses Microsoft products?
(can't say more right now, i have to get back to feeding the grey squirrels. takes a lot of nuts and berries to produce enough hair to fill a brush. by the way, can anybody give me a lead on some geese eggs - i want to raise them and make my own quills. just like the old timers. after all, i stopped using "canned" paint back in the Big One -- why bother to grind my own pigments if i'm going to use a store bought brush? i can't stand all these newfangled contraptions.)
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Scooter-- I would suggest you be real careful when you go out to feed those squirrels. If they get wind of your plans for their tails, They may have a little chat with the geese, and come up with some reaaly neat ideas for your tail. Critters do talk to each other, you know. Spend a lot of time looking over your shoulder, 'cause you wont know who, or what, may be sneaking up behind you.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Actually I do have a plotter and hardly any microsoft programs. And although my gerber may be old its also one less thats going to be in some signmakers shop. I totally believe in design but also totally believe in paint.
Since most have taken my post out of context I figure what the hell because most can't compare with my color and design to begin with and what good is a plotter going to do for me when every design I do is different to begin with.
Ever try selling a vinyl stripe to a guy with a street rod, cycle or custom truck where money is no object. Have any of you ever striped or lettered monograms on a Rolls Corniche convertible?
Do you really believe that these persons who own top dollar vehicles want a vinyl stripe on them or that they do not know the difference. Not everyone was born yesterday or started their business yesterday as some of you here.
As usual I find it necessary to be blunt!
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
posted
Bill, I do everything by hand. but most of it is large scale window lettering. The small boxes of copy (3" helvetica and misc. exact type) are about the hardest, but I do use a computer to help me grid or scale it out in advance. I find the reliance on my own sense of dead reckoning without a computer is almost all instinct driven and more and more accurate the more I am working....The computer helps with scaling and porportions, but my own eye seems to be the best with large scale. Now, if I could just get some quills or rollers with spellcheck!
I sub out the occasional vinyl lettering (ie hours, specific logos and lotta copy) I guess if I had more of these to do, I would get a cutter, but I kinda like not having to inventory the vinyl and computer equipment. Have passed on a couple of 4Bs over the years and kinda glad I did. Having to go see my buddy Steve Thompson with his high tech cutters is a small price I gladly pay for the pleasure to see his artistry from time to time and of course, his friendship as well.
I have a great respect for anyone who takes his or her work to a level of artistic merit and the computer is only another tool to do it. No big deal. It is more about design and not which tool we use! We brushers or quill kings are a dying lot, but so went the buggywhip makers!
posted
Hmmm..... I can say that I have designed some great stuff with a pencil, (maybe even revieling Joey's pencil). I can say that I have pinstriped $60,000 antique cars that are only 300 in exisitance, with a brush. I can say that I have layed out and hand lettered signs without any use of a ruler let alone a computer. I can say that I have put high priced graphics on $30,000 motorcycles without using a computer or a brush. I can say that I put a double strip on a car this morning with a brush and a magnet and made $150 and came back to the shop and weeded vinyl the rest of the day. What I won't say is that this makes me any better than any of you.
------------------ -------------------------------------------------- "A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?"
posted
If it wasen't for computers 95% of the wannabes on this web site would be working at subway, in the hands of true professinals computers are a great tool problem is to many boob's have them and the're all experts in five minutes. As for a learning curve it took about a week to figure this thing out as for hand painting and designing it never ends.
------------------ Scott Moyer Promised Land Pennsylvania 570-595-0310
Posts: 111 | From: Canadensis PA. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I've met 4 signfolks in my area and even got to know them a little. Hope to get to know them all better as time goes by.
They run the gamit from totally "the old way" to totally the "new way", that is a franchise shop with the latest "marketing techniques and methods".
The way I see it is that I can learn lots from all of them... and in the process maybe share with them a couple things I know from my different set of experiences. They all have valid points of view just like everyone here. They need to do what is right for them.
I take pride in handcrafting most of what I do. But I also use a computer and other mechanical tools to make this possible. No big deal.
The magic is still in the design whether it is produced by hand or some other method.
I did murals for years...
I got a chuckle when I saw some purist gridding out the wall and carefully laying out the mural "the old fashioned way". It took days or longer.
I could easily lay out my mural in 20 minutes to an hour using a projector. They called me a cheater.
The magic was in the design of the mural and not the method used to get the handcrafted mural layout on the wall. To me the most important part was the design and then the actual painting of the mural. Any way to make this process faster made a huge difference in the amount of money I could take home at the end of the project.
The method of layout didn't make the mural one bit better or worse.
Signs are sort of like that too.
-dan
------------------ Dan Sawatzky Sawatzky's Imagination Corporation Cultus Lake , British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.ca
posted
The original question was, do we know any signmakers out there who eschew computer technology and do it the way we did it BC (before computers).... I've mentioned him before here on the BB, and he is a total luddite about computers, altho he does use an electro pounce! He is of course, the excellent graphic designer and sign maker, John Leslie, currently living in Salt Lake City and doing the signs for "Touched by an Angel". John wouldn't have a clue how to turn a computer on, but his graphic design ability is the best. He does it with a pencil, and oh yeah, that mass of gray stuff between his ears. Every time I ask for help, he takes my mediocre designs, and with a few strokes of his pencil, shows me what good graphic design is all about. He is an excellent hand letterer, and does a lot of 3 dimensional work, mostly routed, by hand of course! His work is top quality and his logo designs can be seen all over southern Utah around Cedar City where he had a sign shop for almost 25 years before his move "up narth" a few years back. Obviously, I have a computer, and I have a plotter too, but I bought the plotter 3 years ago and am still on the original blade. I go months without turning it on. 99% of my work is done with brush and 1shot. But I still enjoy the computer as a fun tool/toy. The real ability or talent or skill is what lies between the ears. And the problem with poor signage is NOT the quicky sticky shops, it is THE CUSTOMER!! Put the blame where the blame belongs, with the one who clamors for crappy signage. Just as there would be no drug dealers without customers, or prostitutes without customers, there would be no crappy signs without the customers who desire them. Next time you see a really awful sign, tell the person who bought the sign what bad taste they have. HA! LE
------------------ LazyEdna in RL known as Sara Straw from southern Utah 5 National Parks within 3 hours drive Red Rock Heaven
Posts: 776 | From: Aurora, Utah, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I did everything freehand for 17 years until last April. 99% vehicle work, not many signs. The man who taught me, Bob Cosgrove did it for 25 years before adding vinyl 6-7 years ago. I still do alot of freehand layout with just a stabilo and a yardstick, never used a mahl stick, wouldn't know how.
Side note on Joey Madden: Anyone who has taken the time to check out his website would know he can't be such a bad guy. It is very helpful and adds alot of tips and info. He does awesome work too!
------------------ Mike Clayton MC Graphics Barnegat, NJ http://www.visualnoise.com/mcg/ mike@visualnoise.com
"Youth and enthusiasm is no match for old age and treachery!"
Posts: 508 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Apr 1999
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1. It's all about time, skill, patience and disipline. The talent will flow when that is achived. 2. Makin' good money should be the end result of all sign painter's and sign maker's efforts. 3. If the Sign don't rock now, stay with it till it does. Thas'it.............CrazyJack
------------------ Jack Wills Studio Design Works 6255 Brookside Circle Rocklin, CA 95677 writer@quiknet.com
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I wish to respectfully disagree with Lazy Edna's statement that customers with bad taste are to blame for poorly done signs. We are professionals. Most customers rely on us for our talent and expertise. Those qualities are why they come to us and don't make signs themselves. We are responsible for our professional development and we are responsible for educating the sometimes ignorant consumer in a way that reflects our talent. Our talent and expertise, not our salesmanship, is our best sales tool.
When I see a badly done sign, it is almost invariably a case of the artist not asserting him/herself. When a customer presents us with a problem (too much copy, improper font request, poor layout done on home computer, etc), it is our job as professionals to explain why their idea is not in their best interest. We back our statements up with good portfolio examples and referrals.
And there are times when we need to respectfully tell the customer that we cannot in good faith do their job under their conditions. That either gets their attention or they walk and find someone who is willing to put out a piece of crap.
This is the kind of professionalism that transforms so-called "bad" customers into repeat business, because in the end, the customer must trust us to do our job.
Bruce Deveau
------------------ Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 pop04667@tiac.net
Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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