posted
On the topic of keepng on topic with the stayin' with a sign related post.... I just feel like sometimes taking a FAT break from the computer an going on a SIGN PAINTIN' holiday. My poor ol' brushes keep screaming at me from inside my dust covered, beat up using a rope for a handle sign kit and yet as I pass by this relic of the past I can still hear the songs. Music of the paper pattern being rolled up and tossed to the ground and spiraling notes floating from the cans of ONE SHOT and that first sweet pass of the hogleg on a bulletin by the highway. Do I miss that? YES,yes it is etched into my frontal lobes where supposedly that space is reserved for kinder times. But I say S**t on that noise, I still have a crush on the mighty wave of the past.Pass the penetrol and let's get it on.... Wantto join me? Thas'it........BrushWacked CrazyJack
------------------ Jack Wills Studio Design Works 6255 Brookside Circle Rocklin, CA 95677 writer@quiknet.com
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I'd like to join ya Jack, but the dollar signs before my eyes keep saying grab another roll of vinyl off the shelf!!, beside my fingernails have never been cleaner!
------------------ Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesig@dingoblue.net.au Downunder "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life" - Confucius
[This message has been edited by david drane (edited June 25, 2001).]
Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I know the feeling Jack. The dream of making a living out of a signkit, is what got me started in this business. In my case, the signkit turned into a big shop and the tail started to wag the dog. Somewhere along the line, the dream was lost.
A few weeks back, I painted a sign for my cousin. It was hard work with my heart, but the old feeling was still there. There is something very satisfying about painting with a brush. Since then, I find myself entertaining the idea of getting back in the biz. It's a great fantasy.
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I haven't had rely on signwriting as my sole source of income for a few years now, but I still make them simply because its one of the most satisfying and therapeutic things I know of. Even when I dont have any paying signwork I usually have a glass panel or a chunk of timber around the house begging for attention. Not much beats the smell of linseed oil and the feeling you get when you cut a letter from a fresh can of enamel. Even moreso when you have the luxury of not having a bunch of people breathing down your neck for it
David
------------------ David Fisher D.A. & P.M. Fisher Signwriting Brisbane Australia da_pmf@yahoo.com
Posts: 1450 | From: Brisbane Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Your pinstriping has always been 1st.Class as far as I could remember. You're not the first striper I've seen practically leave the trade when your workmanship in striping is at the top of the list.
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
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Hey I hear ya Jack. I would love to just go back to signpainting. I loved it. Sad to say but my computer and plotter have sucked me in. I rarely get orders for any handpainting anymore. The cloest I get is for sandblasted signs. That is why I love meets. The smell of one shot. The feel of the brushes.....
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Jack, sometimes when I have those moments, I go to the shelf with some of the old cans, open one up, and take a sniff. Remember the smell of "Signwriters Companion?" Some of the old oil sizes and varnishes? A whiff of that can bring so many wonderful memories that I get to keep upto senility.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You mean some people have quit painting signs? Ya'll need to get down/over/up to Alabama and paint some at the DUCK SOUP meet.You won't make any money,but you sure will have fun!
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Lordy Lordy Folks, My finger nails have powdered charcoal rings,ground in with paint. The inside of my truck smells of 1-shot and reducer. Ahead of me yet this summer are 6 14'x48' billboards, a 12'x 16' block wall, 2 8'x8'panels, 2 8'x16' panels, a 4'x8' panel, a 4'x4', 2 4'x20' banners...that's all I can think of now! Just finished a 10'x 32' board with 12'x14' pictorial on it, 6'x 50' block wall, and a 4'x20' banner. I ain't missin paintin one bit!! Not a lot of quill work here...but I take what I can git. Havin fun, slingin an' sloppin. And a great tan to boot!
------------------ Bill Dirkes Bethel Hill Signs Butler, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
Posts: 591 | From: Bellevue,Ky. US | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Bottom line is all of you could still be painting. Like Steve said your letting the tail wag the dog. Everyone remembers what got them into this buisness but slowly steered away from it. Usually for money. I'm a young sign guy who loves the paint and looks for the jobs in which I can paint. If I have to become a vinyl shop I will get out of the biz. We are losing an art and all of us are guilty of letting it go. Some of you have heard me talk about my wednesday night get together with 4 or 5 other sign painters, this is what that night is for. Not letting the past disappear. It will only disappear if you let it. I do realize everyone has to make a living. I also see some shops trying to suck up more work than they can handle or need. The coputer seems to have done this. In my short years in the biz I have heard the same thing from all older sign painters. They long for the old days of working out of a paint box. Drag that thing out and use it or send me all your old quills. I hate the new ones and would love yours that are all broken in. DON'T LOSE THE PASSION!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
[This message has been edited by Rob Larkham (edited June 26, 2001).]
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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iam doin the inet thing with my coffee, then iam gona use my computer to make a pounce pattern for 4- 4' x 8' painted on aluminum signs....the copy is only 3 words per sign, and should only take 30-45 mins to lay down the paint on each one(each line of copy is over 12" tall) $925, materials included....which is 4 sheets of .040 yellow alum. at $205.00, and way less then a pint of paint....dont even wana think about hangin vinyl letters this big.....and NO BUBBLES!!!!!!!
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hang in there Jack, I know the feeling, actually I'm enjoying the feeling, to a certain extent. I'm doing a "combo" small lettering and logo in vinyl, larger letters hand painted and jazzed up to give it some effects, yes I love it!
------------------
aka: Cisco aka:Traveling Millennium Sign Artist http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Don't need no stinkin software to open kit and paint a sign.
Not only is the sign kit Y2K compliant...but I can actually (yer not gonna believe this!) take it directly to the customer/job location and do the job there!
Don't need to plug my sign kit up when I get there!
Am not limited to an 8.5" by 11" window...as a matter of fact...I get paid for windows, as opposed to having to pay for a small one that screws up all the time...and needs to be upgraded, and tweaked, and re-installed, etc.
I may smell funny when I get back home, but at least it ain't the "sweet" smell of pickles or beer and I've got a wild look in my eye at the dinner table. And consequently, there's more interesting things on the dinner table, than if I did a piddly $25 coroplast sign it took me 3 hours to deliver and two weeks to get paid on.
(Something about a wet brush in yer hand seems to speed the payment of yer work up a bit...hehehe!)
There's nothin that feels better than collapsing in the booth of my favorite coffee house, splattered with whatever I just worked on, and askin folks to let me get a cup of coffee down my neck before they ask me to jump on or take a look at something else.
And I love goin through laundry and finding 50 and 100 dollar bills shoved in the pockets...that really makes my day!
Vinyl never did anything for me, cept slow down the work available to me that I spent 27 years nurturing.
Not bitter, just broke, and considering it a personal challenge to do it the old way anyway!
I still tell people, especially my students, don't be afraid of your brushes...stroke em and dance with em and they will take really good care of you!
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Linda, you can save that last dance for me! Ya done my heart good to hear the ways of a true writer of the sign. Stay with the Peace an'Buddha, has yer back. Thas'it..............CrazyJack (and I have the papers to prove it)
------------------ Jack Wills Studio Design Works 6255 Brookside Circle Rocklin, CA 95677 writer@quiknet.com
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Well Crazy Jack....I am STILL painting signs. I REFUSE to go to strictly VINUL. I may be dragging the past along...so be it. I agree with Rob, someone needs to keep this craft alive.
I can't imagine putting my brushes aside and buying a plotter and a bunch of vinyl just to make a quick buck....don't seem natural to me.
In fact, I just ordered a couple of French Masters quills from Lola at Esoteric in So. Cal.
Man...how could you possibly hang up your brushes??? So, do yourself a favor and hang up your plotter...or just shoot it and your TV!!! Life will get better!
Besides...how do you use a mahl stick and a squeegee at the same time?
------------------ Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun"
Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
As a young sign painter it makes me feel so good to see and hear people who still have the passion. Don't get me wrong, I own a plotter and the parking signs and what I call cookie cutter signs help pay the bills. But like the others said there is no better feeling than picking up a brush and painting. I love the smell of my shop. I love this business. I just hope I can say this in another 15 to 20 years.
------------------ Rob Larkham RL Graphic D-Sign Chester, MA rldsigns@aol.com
Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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You make me blush! You are right...i am a die hard "lead head" hahaha!
I'll dance with ya, if you won't pick on me for havin a quill in my hair...I hate those plastic clippy thingies. The flower I usd to wear in my hair taught me that flowers attract bees. Down here in skeeter country, takes a little more patience to paint anything when yer swattin yerself and out runnin things that sting hahah!
You mentioned the sound of the pattern paper. I keep remembering having to chase paper across the field when the wind would pick up....(not just a figger of speech in these parts hehehehe) Sure am glad I got an indoor shop now, whew!
By the way, I wanna go on the list to recieve, er, uh I mean rescue neglected brushes! I promise to give em a good home!
I've got some I've had since and before I was pregnant with my 15 year old. They woulda run away from home a long time ago if'n it was a bad thing to be here hahahah! I just peeked in my kit and they're still smilin!
posted
Here is the answer! Get yourself to a Walldog meet and like it was at Cornwall, not a roll of vinyl was to be seen. The order of the week end was strictly brushes to execute every type of lettering and pictorial you could imagine. You had the oportunity to work on the creations of the best in the both countrys. Now this is my idea of a real vacation. Try it, you'll love it.
------------------ Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. Little Ferry, NJ billsr@riedelsignco.com
Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I'm just the opposite. After 25 years of lettering, I don't miss it a bit. The thought of "wasting" that much time almost sickens me. I no more want to use a brush to letter signs than I would want to use a handsaw to rip plywood. The idea of not being able to do something else while sitting on "that box" lettering is ridiculous...at least to me. If you're lettering, you are using your hands to make money in a market where your competition is using machines. While "being an artisan" is somewhat of a romantic notion, I must admit that the newer ways, even with their drawbacks, are better than the old way. It's funny but when I first started doing vinyl signs, they looked "strange"...too perfect....too sterile....in fact ....wrong. But now, when I look at a hand-lettered sign, it looks "strange", flawed and almost amateur. The fact that I don't have to deal with paint and lacquer thinners and paint itself too much these days is very nice. If you miss lettering, then by all means....go letter...and have a blast. Pick up that old Langnickel quill, get out that old box, mahl stick and paint and go for it. Life is too short not to be happy......
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posts: 560 | From: El Granada, CA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I find for most of the work I get, hand lettering is faster and more profitable. I give them vinyl when they request it or when it will speed things up for me. I seem to spend an awful lot of time weeding and premasking
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Jack, I still hand letter certain jobs,like windshields at carlots,walls, and large letters where cutting in vinyl could be costly. Pulling out my brushes and the One Shot is a great break from the computer and I enjoy it. But I feel it is only WISE to keep up with technology. I find computers,plotters,& vinyl just another MEDIUM. Also it's great for menu boards and other signs requiring lots of small copy. I feel just as good about my computer generated signs as I do the handpainted. I feel I have an edge in computer generated side by having a signpainter's background. Happy handpainting! Judy
------------------ Judy Pate Signs By Judy 110 LuMac Road Albany,Ga 31701 229-435-6824 Letterville is my HOME! Life is like a canvas...you do the painting.
posted
I only been lettering for two years and design like a veteran. I assure you that hand lettering custom signs will never die! Thanks to the silly putty vinyl shops that take all the cheap a** customers while we get the cream of the crop. If you can letter and know how to design you have a great competitive edge.
HI my name is Fernando.......and i'm a brushaholic
posted
This thread brings up a question that has occured to me often of late. How many of you know sign painters that still do it all the hard way? All the way from pencil sketches to hand painting, and not a computer in sight. I know two of these traditionalists in my area, and both are top-drawer sign crafters-- but, since neither want anything to do with computers,they wont be found here on this- or any other- website. It's really a shame, too, since both of these folks could contribute a wealth of information and talent to the rest of us. Just a thought.
------------------ Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA wpreston2@stny.rr.com
[This message has been edited by Bill Preston (edited June 29, 2001).]
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I think I understand the reasoning of those folks out there doing it the "Hard Way". I too, did it that way from the very beginning. My biggest fear of computers (aside from not knowing anything about them) was that I would never get to sit at my drawing table and design with pencil and paper. And, Alas...that is what happened. But as it turns out, I had nothing to fear at all...because as I learned more and more about designing on the computer, I could NEVER go back to drawing fonts by hand. It was too time consuming...especially when the customer didn't like the particular font I had chosen...I had to tell them.."come back in a couple of days and I will have another design" NOT!!! Now...It would be difficult to go back and do it the "Hard Way". I am spoiled now. The other fear I had was that I would start doing everything in Vinyl! I still have that fear!!! However, I am learning to blend the two together...and finding it much easier, especially for small secondary copy...such as 1/2" Futura on a menu. But... I won't fall into the trap of doing this exclusivly for the money...cranking out the signs in vinyl just to get them out the door. 2 years ago we decided to focus on custom signs...there is a real good market here. And, with changing our attitude we changed the attitude of our customers. Now...offering quality handpainted signs...we charge a lot more than the other shops...we have the time to put real quality into our work...they are more than willing to pay the extra cost to have a unique sign...and they are waiting in line for us to do thier signs. Amazing how changing your attitude creates a change in others attitude. We also made some changes around the shop...we made a new sign for the front, put it in a BEAUTIFUL rock garden, added "Art Studio" to our name...now we are starting to get more murals and do more art work. So...I can say that as long as I am able we will always do handpainting...and turning out some killer designs....after all..that is what this business is all about. I learned early that I didn't want to try to compete with the other shops around here..all of them have gone to vinyl...and I sure can't compete with thier prices. Now...please don't misunderstand me...I am not saying that vinyl is a bad thing...not at all..it has it's place just like any other medium or tool...however...my BIGGEST fear is that one day I would look around and find myself standing at the plotter with an exacto knife in one hand and a squeege in the other, waiting for the damned thing to finish cutting so I could get this job done and out the door and get on to the next one...Arrrgggg! I think that would be the end of me!
So...PAINT RULES!!!! (and with a little vinyl here and there to balance it all out!!!).
------------------ Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun"
Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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