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Hello, I currently am employed at a sign shop which does mostly way-finding systems. We also do graphics, router work, Pylons, and such. It has kinda turned into an assembly type company. In other words, boring. I love the creative part of it, although it is very limited. I need some advice for going out on my own. I already own a Gerber Edge, a Gerber HS 15, and a 24" plotter. I also have a 450 sq ft work shop. Any advice is appreciated.
------------------ Graphic Zone
Posts: 9 | From: Whitehall, PA 18052 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Shawn...Sounds like you have a perfect start to being in business for yourself. You have the equipment, presumably the software to run the equipment and probably the knowledge of how to use it.
Your biggest hurdle will be attracting customers. If you have a regular day job, I would suggest "moonlighting" to start, so that you won't go into debt while waiting for a decent base of customers to build. Of course "moonlighting" shouldn't mean cutting prices because the intent is that eventually you want to earn a decent living exclusively from your own customers. Also, make your current employer aware of your intentions and make a point of avoiding HIS customers.
Don't spend more than you make! LOL
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
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Thank You, Dave. I do have Omega software, yes. I have been moonlighting, and do have about 30 customers. Unfortuenatley, this is not enough to keep me busy 5 or 6 days a week. Have you ever done direct-mail for advertising? How do you advertise? How do you stay sane in it? LOL Thanks again Dave.
------------------ Shawn Schrader Graphic Zone Whitehall, PA shawnmmx@enter.net
Posts: 9 | From: Whitehall, PA 18052 | Registered: Jun 2001
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2) Read Jeff Cahill's article in at www.signcraft.com in the Features page about determining your hourly rate.
3) If you are working in your home, figure your expenses as if you were renting a shop.
4) Create a flyer/letter of introduction and mail out 20 each week until you have a large enough customer-base to support yourself. If you have an active Chamber of Commerce, you may want to look into finding out what it would cost to have a flyer inserted in their monthly newsletter. It cost us about $100 to do it and it hits over 3000 businesses.
5) With your Edge, you should be able to easily make your truck an effective rolling billboard.
6) Don't lowball prices to attract customers, thinking that you'll be able to raise them later. Its never works that way.
7) Family comes first. Don't let the business run your life. There are more important things than signs.
8) When dealing with customers, don't take anything personally and never assume anything.
posted
Shawn..Yes when I was first starting out I did do some direct mailings. Here in Ontario I was able to tell the post office that I only wanted to target "businesses". I got quite a good response from the first set of mailings. A couple of years later I did the same thing but got hardly any response at all.
As has been discussed here in the past, the majority of us here don't feel that Yellow Page advertising is worth the money they charge and it usually results in lots of "tire kickers" but not many actual buyers.
Word of mouth is the best advertising. If you already have about 30 customers keep in touch with them and let them know that you would appreciate any referalls they might be able to come up with.
Some ideal places to introduce yourself to are trucking companies (the bigger the better), marinas that specialize in repainting, Contracting/building construction companies. These are all types of businesses that will have a need for your services on a regular repeat basis. I am sure there are others but I can't think of anymore right now.
Any company that regularly replaces their vehicles is ideal.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
How about subcontracting work to other sign shops?
You have the equipment and software, and presumably the knowledge to operate both efficiently, so why not target other sign shops in the area that don't or can't offer the services you can provide?
You can provide them with products and services for customers they would normally need to turn away, plus you build a good relationship with those other shops. Eventually, the competition aspect drops out of the equation and it turns into a referral service when they're just too busy to deal with any extra work.
Otherwise.. Direct mailings and driving around town looking for aged signs in need of repair are definitely ways to get your foot in the door, until you can get a good base of Word-of-Mouth customers.
I dont even do much local work at all, I sell mostly online which suits me fine cause I dont want people ringin my phone or knockin on my door all day. I had alot of local business when I lived in St Louis and it was a pain in the butt. I moved 1500 miles to Arizona and killed that, now I sell online and have my freedom.
I wouldnt even worry about being busy 5 or 6 days a week.. That's not the way you want to do business, or at least that's not the way I want to do business.. Weekends just arent enough for me!
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Well I'm kinda new at my business and when I got started I just made some business cards and started walking into stores introducing myself. You have a great advantage over me in that you already know about the sign business. I was a Project manager doing internet stuff until I got laid off last year. I took my vacations for 2 yrs and went to BIG shows and did reseaerch on my own.
Since I didn't do much business that way I joined the Chamber of Commerce and started going to those meetings. Got a job out of the 2 meetings and since then I've been really meeting the local business folks and getting my name out. I then joined Business Network International (BNI) which is a referral organization which has really helped and I just recently put a color postcard together that I'm planning on sending to all the chamber members and some other business around town. I'll also put them up in Marina's etc. You really have to continue marketing until you have a big enough customer base that keeps coming back. I'm not even making enough to pay the bills but I really enjoy the work and am determined to make it. You have to have the drive & will to succeed.
Best of luck and think of the little engine that could - I think I can...
------------------ Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
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Wow, LOL, everyone ois very helpful, and supportive. I really appreciate that. Thanks to all, including, Dave, Glenn, Felix, Mike, Brian, and especially Stephen!!! My wife thinks I have a screw loose. I may agree. I also think that's what it takes to go out on your own. I am printing all of your replies, for a mental boost. Thanks all! Shawn
------------------ Shawn Schrader Graphic Zone Whitehall, PA shawnmmx@enter.net
Posts: 9 | From: Whitehall, PA 18052 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Shawn- I just opened my doors full time back in January. I did this gig part time for ten years, so I thought I knew what I was getting in to-WRONG!
The 1st thing we did was join the Chamber of Commerce, and insert an ad in their newsletter. That ad payed for itself, and payed my Chamber dues for the next year,(plus lunch money). I attended every Chamber function, and meeting, business cards in hand. Also- I go nuts with the flyers- I'll bet it takes 10 seconds to read everyone elses flyers- where mine take 5X that!
I also spent days going around town to ALL of the business here, and introducing myself.
I did a BS gallery deal in a local coffee shop, and shamelessly promoted myself.
I contacted the local newspaper, and got my picture in the paper, for more shameless promotion.
I do lettering, and airbrushing demonstrations at the local schools. I figgure those kids have parents that might want a sign. I had a kid contact me last week, and he wants to come over and learn how to airbrush. He already thought he knew how, till I showed him a different,(faster) way.
I lettered up my wifes truck. (She works downtown).
I donated a banner to a local museum here that just opened,(now I'm the guy they go to!)
I offered special pricing for banners to a local rodeo show here. Got 5 new customers outta that.
My 84 Chevy 1/2 ton will be completely lettered and custom painted by end of summer. I wanna paint every inch of that truck, so when it's seen, its talked about.
I work my butt off to GET ORDERS OUT THE DOOR AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. I also listen to customers, and am not afraid to give em my input. TACTFULLY
Do not flinch when you ask for a deposit, or payment. This takes practice. What I got tired of was guys that own million $ buildings here, are asking for "deals". I had a plumber once who balked at $75 for something. He says, "will you take 50?" What I'm thinkin is "FU!,how much do you charge an hr??! What I said was "nope" and left it at that. That sets the tone, hehehe.
Another thing that I'm doin is meeting with customers, at thier place, and delivering signs. I will quit doing this completely in the near future.
KEEP AN EYE ON THE BOOKS! We, (wife and I), are finding out that we are not very good at this, and it will get us in trouble. We've identified the weakness, and are working very hard to eliminate it.
The biggest thing that I had,(have), to overcome is the mindset. I worked my entire life for an employer. The last 20 in in the military. it was SOOO much easier to go to work, piss-off who you wanted to, go home, collect a paycheck. Now, its weird. I cannot rely on a paycheck every 2 weeks.
I guess what I'm doing is trying to keep my sign shop in the forefront of everybodys minds, and it seems to be working. I'm also trying gain a reputation for quality stuff, rather quickly, and a hard ass when it comes to pricing. If people know that about you before,(pricing), then they won't even bother with the "deals". And don't run after people that say,"ya know, sign shop X will do it for cheaper". I say, OK. People will lie to you all the time. I hadda guy tell me that sign shop X will letter his sign for 1/2,($250) what I was chargin. I knew he was lying. Even if he wasn't it wasn't worth it to me at all. It took sign shop X- 8 hrs to do his sign, on a boom-truck, so I don't even think that it was worth $500 to me.
Crap- I hate long winded posts. Keep a positive attitude, and always forge ahead, even when your behind.
Steve
------------------ Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works. "B0LT" on the chat room thing. 209 Oak Drive Sturgis SD 57785 sbarba2616@dtgnet.com 605-720-7667
Posts: 768 | From: Sturgis South Dakota | Registered: Nov 1998
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Shawn, When I started my own shop full time, 20 some years ago, I quickly ran out of what "regular" customers I had depended on, and placed an ad in the yellow pages. The day it came out, the phone started ringing and I stopped "looking" for customers. It does pay off if you stay around and answer the phone! All the other stuff does good too, but when a business person need a sign, they look in the -----Yellow Pages! John Arnott
------------------ John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 444-SIGN signgraphics1@aol.com
Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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shawn...my only question is...that area still as depressed as it was 10-12 yrs ago when all the steel mills closed....and are there enough good businesses around to supply you with work...iam from down washington pa. way....and aint tom rose near you ?......
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Shawn, I have to agree mostly with Steve Barba and the others. There is some great advice in there. Just remember you need to be flexible when you need to and rigid when you have to.
A deposit is always a good way to establish trust on both ends, but with some customers this is not possible. I used to "Insist" on a deposit everytime,all the time. Unfortunatly when you are dealing with larger companies, many will(can) only do business with you if you bill them. Out of all my customers I only have a handfull that I extend "credit" to, and they have always paid within 30 days, no problems. These are large corporations, some national, and are always well established. Use your best judgment and occasionally you may get burned, but learn from it.
As far as delivering work, when I started out I was out of my home,almost 2 yrs ago, I didn't want a ton of people stomping thru my house so I delivered almost everything. When I moved into a "shop" this past Feb. I found I needed to be here rather than delivering signs all day. It took awhile to "re-train" some of my past customers to come here and get their stuff, but it has worked out better. When I do have to deliver I try to do it all at one time rather than making several trips thru out the day.
The best advise I can give you is to "GO FOR IT". My father has never been the type of person to put much credence in self employed companies, although he has been self employed as a lawyer most of his life. He always had the thought when I was working out of the house that I could always get another joob if this didn't work out and I didn't have all that overhead. When I moved the shop into it's present location he was in Fla. on one of his 2 yearly, 2 month long trips. I was kinda scared to even tell him, I didn't want the lecture or an argument. Well low and behold he was extremly supportive, and even told several people "he is either going to make it or not, might as well go for it and find out". Now he is really proud of what I have acomplished( a first for him) and is still very supportive.
Sorry to be so long, it didn't start out that way. Best of luck to you and if you need anything don't hesitate to ask!!!!!!!!
BTW, How far from the Poccono Mts. are you, my wife and I honeymooned there. 12 years ago next month on the 15th.
------------------ Troy Haas "Metal_Leg" on mIRC
SAM Signs & RPM Auto Graphix 931 W. Columbia street Evansville,Indiana 47710 812-437-5367 Home of the: "Brush Fire at the Hose House" Letterhead Meet April 27-29th,2001
"Chaos, panic, disorder - my work here is done."
Posts: 1100 | From: Evansville,Indiana, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have to agree with Glenn Taylor on this one - never, ever, ever get into the lowballing prices game.
Let the quality of your work shine through and stand firm on your prices - you deserve to make outstanding profits in this business, and it's a truism that you are only limited by yourself.
Let the sky be the limit instead!
------------------ Mark Smith Ampersand Signs & Design EstiMate Sign Estimating Software www.ampweb.com/estimate 1-888-304-3300 Hailing from beautiful Asheville, N.C.
Posts: 724 | From: Asheville, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thank, to all. I have been keeping particular things in mind. I have also been jotting notes down on scribble paper. One day these notes will become something I will do naturally, and not have to remind myself about. They are "Direct Mail, Wholesail Services, Truck Dealers, I think I can, Focus Creates Energy, Don't loball" Some are places to try to sell, some are mental encouragement. Thanks all who have helped.
Old Paint, No it is not a depressed area. I do't think it ever really was. It has built up quite a bit, and it is still going pretty good. I love this area.
Shawn
------------------ Shawn Schrader Graphic Zone Whitehall, PA shawnmmx@enter.net
Posts: 9 | From: Whitehall, PA 18052 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Whitehall! That's only about 1/2 - 45 min from us! We have a few projects up there. On the corner of McArthur & Rt. 329 - Salivonchick DDS - in the little strip shopping ctr. That was a 12'x4' sandblasted sign we did about 2-3 yrs ago. There are a few others up there.
If you ever have any questions feel free to call - 215-257-8275.
The advice above is awsome! Follow it all. I really like Mark Robert's pricing guide. http://www.signprice.com
Time management. When you learn tell me how.
Organization. Keep records of everything you do.
Sales. Go around and spread the word of your new business.
Don't lowball - one job at the right price is worth 5 (million) at the wrong. No free artwork. Get a signed proposal and deposit before anything. Give a price FIRST! I can't begin to explain how much time I've wasted on designing only having it have gone out the window. Can't get time back!
Maybe work with other shops in your area. When we first opened I introduced myself to all of the other shop owners in the area. One said there is room for us all.
Get ready for one CRAZY adventure. A real true test of character.
Good Luck!!!
------------------ Summit Signs Sellersville, PA summitsigns@erols.com
I have run a shop in Whitehall for the last 8 years ( after moving back up here from Sarasota FL ) Business is pretty good generally. I started a shop in Allentown, PA in 1982 having no knowledge of the sign business at all. I have survived for over 19 years and enjoyed it!
You are welcome to stop by my shop any time and I would try to help in any way that I can. Please call first however.
I have kept some of my customers for over 18 years... you do it by treating them right.
You should do OK, you already have better signmaking equipment than I do!
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