posted
Get our minds back to the real topics that make this site such a wonderful place to visit.
I don't want to know your political views or what your sexual preferences are and I certainly don't care to see another off topic post where persons change every word they see to what they believe it says rather then thinking about what it says.
I know I have the opportunity not to post but must persons ask what we think about an off topic as if we don't have anything else going for us as artists in this small world in which we live in.
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
[This message has been edited by Joey Madden (edited June 10, 2001).]
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Hey Joey........ What's happinin ol buddy....??
I agree completly with you......Hell it's Saturday nite, let kick back, roll a couple more big ol fat ones, and talk about whatever it is, you want ta talk about..........
Sheeiit.......! This here's Letterville, and ya can talk about anything that ya want........(almost that is) hehe!!
So lets hear it amigo........You start it out by hummin a few bars, an I'll just blend in with ya after you git it goin........
Cool.........Finally a post where we can all talk about something really useful.......
posted
Joey,I totally agree with you, and you hit the nail square on the head. Your post describes what happens on here every week. Heck, just look at the numbers. Ask a question about software, get 3 responses. Mention something about a politician, get 116 responses. I'm kinda guilty myself, cause I usually chime in here and there,but only out of defense usually, but lately I have given in to just letting it go. This is a bulletin board for Letterheads. Most if not all posts should be about what we do, and how to do it. You can come back and say, don't read it if you don't like it, but nobody does that. It's already been tried. I've noticed a few of the more active signpeople who used to post quite a bit, don't do so anymore. No doubt they quit due to the repeating rhetoric they had to look at everyday. For awhile there, the portfolio page took off with pics of fantastic work, but the cobwebs are back now. You want to show how smart you are? Tell me how you did that last gilding job, or how do you pull a stripe straight as an arrow down the side of a truck. What software did you use to do that, and could you help me learn that trick with the filters in photoshop. The knowledge here is unfathomable on the subject of signs, lettering, gilding, weeding, colors, prepping, materials,etc. It just aint being used that well. Tell you the truth, it wouldn't bother me if Steve just hopped up and said, No more off topic political posts. Course, thats just me, others may differ, but I'm pretty sure many more feel the way I do. Debate is a great way of getting the facts out, and stating opinions on subjects you are familiar with. Trouble is, most of our debating on here has nothing to do with signwork. And say what you will, agree or not, lines have been drawn, and feelings have been hurt here many times due to certain posts. You can't call someone an idiot for voting a certain way, and then expect them to answer your post about what font is this or what can I use to clean this. WHat Joey says is true, and I agree with him. Bring back the board.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
Without the Jeffords post.... Myra wouldn't have been elected Queen and Sheriff. We wouldn't have learned how eloquent a writer she is. Or, that Linda is quite the poet.
posted
Lessee, now -- 116 answers on the OT post and 3 answers on the one about software ---
Hmmmmm, does this show what the folks are really more interested in? I dunno, maybe just a passing fancy. O.K., I'll agree with you guys, we should whup these so called Letter Heads back into shape and make 'em pay attention to their studies! Yeah!! We ain't here for havin' FUN ya know - this is SERIOUS bidniss. Serious as a pimple on Prom Night, by golly.
So, Joey -- how DO you pull them straight arrow lines?
------------------ "If it isn't fun, why do it?" Signmike@aol.com Mike Languein Doctor of Letters BS, MS, PhD ___________________
You know what BS is, MS is More of the Same, and it's Piled Higher and Deeper here
posted
Lets see now, if you are not part of the solution then you must be part of the problem. Correct?
I certainly believe that O/T posts are what seperates a true artist from commercialized capitalistic persons who dabble in what seems so few of us hold so dear to our hearts.
This is a site where persons come to either learn or teach and not a site for argue about stupid topics read in some friggin newspaper.
Its only a shame that some persons who have little to offer, offer an alternative topic as if we all are truly interested in their beliefs rather then what we actually come here for. Or maybe its because this BB is so commercially sign oriented that the true artist feels left out and no one actually understands what they have said. Either way lets get on with what made this board so habit forming to begin with.
And to top it off, I have only 14 killerkarts available and nine of them are DeLuxe models which I've been saving for this occasion, check out my link below.
And that reminds me of another topic in which when I was a merchant here on Letterheads in the early years, I was never allowed to mention my products but yet felt badgered into giving away Killerkarts as door prizes at meets while persons who done editorials skipped over my generosity only to mention another product of lessor value and perhaps a non advertiser as well. Yes sweatheart I catch everything and yet can lay out straight thin lines that make you think twice of becoming a hand striper.........
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
posted
Somebody posted on the BB a week or two ago that he reads ONLY the OT posts. Doesn't contribute anything in any other manner here. Sad.
A fellow at work kids me by asking me about the "Lemonheads". Don't know what that means, but I DO know that I miss the Letterhead BB that I found 5 years ago. The past year of two, Lemonheads may have been a better name for what's been going on here.
------------------ Don Coplen aka "SaintPete" Coplen Designs St.Petersburg, FL dcoplen@mindspring.com
posted
Hey Joey, You are absolutely right! It's time to stop all of the whining and start growing. We DO need to return to sharing our ideas and talents about this fabulous craft that is our common bond. If you are not stretching the boundaries of your skills then you are not growing.
Thanks for your attention! Chris
------------------ Chris Bryant Puyallup, WA (253) 841-3838 bryantsigns@earthlink.net
Posts: 49 | From: Puyallup, Washington 98374 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ok...what I'm about to say is probably gonna tick some people off. I just hope most of you understand me when I say.....
Stop the whining. Its time to put up or shut up, dang it.
Joey, I want to see some step-by-steps on pinstriping from ya. How to properly trim a brush would be a good start. Or, at least some pics of that beautiful work that you do!
posted
I like the Idea that you can be a visitor for a trial period of 30-60 90 days and if you truly like to help in anyway "JOIN THE CLUB!"
Still doesn't give me,you or anyone else the rights to piss people off.
And as a guest in Steve and Barb's house they have the right to kick anyone of us out with no refund. To be invited into someones house "I don't wear my shoes to scatter dirt on their floors." Topics do get a little out of hand and there is always a Umpire in a Ballgame. RIGHT! 1-2-3 your OUT.
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
well Stephen, thats right nice of you to give such a grace period for visitors but I don't care to join in with anyone who demands anything and respect is something you earn.
I'm also not interested in showing a step by step unless I get paid for it, you see I'm just a straight-line pinstriper who believes that too much of anything spoils the broth. Sure I will give my opinions on what I know and use but thats only because I feel helpful only some of the time and my stripe site with its link below already shows how to's. For CJ to give a step by step will also fall into the same catagory and in reality how many persons can actually do what he does or wants too. I honestly believe that CJ and I are almost from the same school and that teaching persons is a waste of time when time is money, maybe a workshop where persons pay to learn is in the future but other then that, forget it!
If the moderators of this site finds my posts not to their likings because of how I speak then I guess the truth is not what persons want to hear. In my sense of reality I am sick of hearing persons ask about prices as if their experience is equal to another who has been at it for half their lives while many can't even figure out what color looks good with any other color and another thing is when signmakers become pinstripers, contractors, carpenters and a whole slew of other trades when they haven't even figured out when to use a simple clearcoat. Man, I can go on and on but it ain't worth it............
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
posted
Well Joey, now you have me confused. You complain about OT posts and the need to get back to what this site was intended for. Yet, you won't share part of you education unless you get paid for it.
Am I reading that right?
The point of a step-by-step isn't to teach someone everything you know, but to wet the appetite of those who want to learn and offer encouragement to be better today than you were yesterday.
I'm not trying to pick on you or start something. I'm just at a point where I don't understand what you expect from any of us or this site. I feel like I'm getting a mixed message from you.
posted
"Whet".........."whet" the appetite. Now I'm hungry. Thanks,Glenn!
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
I agree I agree !!! yes I am long over due on being a member This site has giving me a lot of help in the past. but its true, ask a question about sign and your not real sure how to ask it, ALL you get is smart A_ _ (butt) anwsers! some of you out there do try to help!! but some of the others.???? hummm! yes I am new to the sign world as a owner and yes I do need lot help geting off the ground!!BUT ask a question on something stupid and look out people come out of the wood work!!!! I agree with Joey lets get back to the real reason Steve put all his heart in and time in to this site and use it the way it was ment to !!!! I have never meet Steve or Barb but from what other letterheads have told me, I believe they did !!!
posted
Glenn, you certainly must be confused, in the past several years I have given much of my education on paint and striping in regards to brush cleaning, flow enhancers, oils and as far as brush trimming that has been discussed time and time again. Let me ask you these questions Glenn, do you own an ultra-sonic cleaner with a stainless tub and timer to clean your brushes with? If not, then why not? I brought this to the many who asked me in regards to cleaning my brushes some years back.
Do you still reduce your paint or do you use a flow enhancer?
Is a TV cart what you work from when on the road or do you have something more professional?
Have you ever tried Rapid Remover to clean your brushes?
Do you use old phone books or magazines to palette your brush on or do you have booklets made?
And just two more questions Glenn, How many pinstripers that have been working even half as long as I have do you see on this bulletin board taking part in another persons quest to learn the painting aspect of these crafts?
How much do I have to spend in order to give away everything I know?
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
Thats the point isn't it. I've read some of your posts about cleaning brushes and so on. But many have not. There are new people coming to this website all the time. I know it get old for you having to repeat yourself. Some days I feel the same way. It comes with the territory. Perhaps that is why some of us get into these OT posts just for the diversion.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you ask "how much do you have to spend to give away" your immense knowledge. Who's asking you to spend anything but a few moments of your time?
Maybe something is going on in the background that I'm not aware of that is making you seem so bitter right now. Then again, I could just be reading something into your post that isn't there. I've never been good at reading people sometimes.
posted
I am a newbee too and I need to become a resident. I agree with some of the comments. I came here because it was a sign people BB. (I use sign people because there are so many different things to get into, chiseling, striping, vinyl). I have learned a lot from everyone here. I may not have been coming here for years like others have, but when I have a topic I need to know about, I hit the archives. I have noticed the older threads have more of an education than some of the newer ones. I too have had the thought that it would be nice if there were no OT posts. Actually, I said that a couple weeks ago in another thread and got slapped 6 ways til Sunday that this wasn't just for sign people. I also asked that if people were doing an OT post, to please put OT in their title and I got attitude for that. There are a couple things that worry me about eliminating OT. First, how do you draw that line? Software questions could be considered OT by some, but not by others who use that software to do layout work for signs. Second, should it be limited to "sign stuff only"? A lot of people here have their own shop. I think the threads about handling rude/bad/uneducated/slow-paying customers have been helpful to the business owners. That could be construed OT by strict standards. The same goes about questions as to which is a better type of advertising. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Now, for the comment that I'm sure will get everyone pissed at me, I've been holding it in and just can't anymore. This is letterheads. This is a bulletin board by and for letterheads. This is not a chat room.
------------------ Chris King Paper Works & Graphix Indiana, PA
Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:This is a bulletin board by and for letterheads. This is not a chat room.
Just in case weren't aware..there IS a chat room associated with this website and Bulletin board. It is interesting that there is a lot less "sign stuff" discussed there and more personal/discussion stuff goes on. BUT there is seldom a "heated" debate. That is probably because of the fact that there is IMMEDIATE dialogue involved with no time to sit and compose the "perfect" response or to "research" information. Sure there are disagreements but they are a lot less frequent than on the BB and for some reason the REALLY irritating subjects don't come up. Probably because when you are chatting in real time it is almost like chatting in real life.
If you are interested in checking it out you can click on the "chat" icon or if you wish, and are familiar with mIRC, send me an e-mail and I can let you know what the server and channel settings are.
Some have indicated that they don't believe in having their "right to free speech" censored. I like to compare that thinking to my opinions on smoking. Smoking is my RIGHT. It isn't illegal. I smoke in my own home. BUT if I go to a non-smoker's home I respect their wishes and do NOT smoke in their home.
When I go to a buddy's home he and I can sit and converse using vulgar language all we want, but when I go to my parent's home or they come to mine, I refrain from using vulgar language because I know it bothers my mother.
Just today I was searching for a decent webcam server..I already knew of a few that were basically "adult oriented" and they don't bother me. But I wanted one that was "family oriented" so that I could use it to do some webcam broadcasting and refer friends to the site. The ones that were family oriented had a PLAINLY posted policy that I had to "cyber" agree to in order to use their service. It was clearly explained that if I were to broadcast video of a nature that was considered "pornographic" my priveledges would be curtailed. I accept that as the right of the owner of the website.
Unfortunately, several of the folks who post topics that they KNOW will incite inflamatory responses semm to have forgotten that this is NOT a forum for anyone to say anything. It is a forum OWNED by a person. It is HIS forum! (Or theirs, sorry Barb! ) He sets the rules. We all agreed to abide by those rules when we registered. AND since it IS his site he has the option to modify those rules if he wishes to do so.
This site is not owned by "the people", it is not run "by the people", nobody "elected" our "mayor". He had the foresight to create it. And I never saw anywhere in the rules of conduct where it said we could vote him out of office OR that we could tell him what is or is not acceptable bahaviour. Some people just seem to "think" that is their God given right under the constitution of the United States. Well it ain't! ------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited June 10, 2001).]
posted
Exactly Dave. It just gets old. Most of the off topics are just subjects being rehashed and rehashed, like the dimple and hanging chad thing. And Mike, you can make all the fun you want out of my response, I don't give a crap. But it's all true. I can tell you this, if it was my board, they'd be off today, and that would be it. For everyone that left because of it, there would be more to take their place. But, I don't think anyone would leave. They like it here too much. Too much to gain and nothing to lose. What Dave said is right also. This is Steve's board. He is the moderator. He can decide what comes and goes. He assumed that right when he started the board. I don't always agree with him, but agree with it being his choice as to what stays or goes. And GLenn, I have been as helpful and active on here as I can, until awhile back when I got tired of reading the same crap day after day. I post pics, I answer posts if I know what to say, and I recently explained a sandblasted job on the portfolio page from start to finish. I intend to try and keep the portfolio page as healthy as can be, by posting job pics, and trying to get others to do so . Look down the board sometime. LOts of goose eggs on some days, but never a goose egg on a political ot post. So I guess that does show what some are more interested in. I don't think that was what was intended.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
posted
On the subject of step by steps, I did one about three years ago, yea it was a bit of a pain in the butt,and no I didn't recieve a dime for it, yet the e-mail it generated ( and still does ) is priceless. It's hard to put a price tag on folks complimenting you for inspiring them. Wanna feel good about yourself? I'd definately suggest doing a step by step, you won't regret it.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
George...You know that I have done the same and I agree with ya....the e-mail responses, even a couple of years later, are well worth the effort that was spent doing a step by step.
I hope to meet up with you again this fall in McCalla! (got a car that needs a "subtle" stripe job, and it could be a live step by step!!)
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted
I agree with you Joey. Wish I could elaborate more bro, but working on a story right now. Just hope Steve and Barb don't say f*uck it, and plug the plug! Bet then everyone here would have a different understanding of this web site versus other ones...Cisco
------------------ FranCisco Vargas aka: Cisco aka:Traveling Millennium Sign Artist http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Your step by step was nice and I applaud you for it but remember this, I also have a stripe site that has been up for many years and though it does not have a BB, it has photos of my work and a basic feel to how the work was done and what was charged. It even has links to other sites including this one and where I come from, one hand washes another but I guess it doesn't matter to some anymore. I get much email from those who seek out pinstriping sites and without a doubt, you can go to any search engine and find it within the first ten entries. Not bad for a free tripod site without a webmaster to push the buttons. Now, I'm not a self promoter who comes here only to sell my products as with others who use this board on a frequent "only when it serves them" basis. And at the same time I not always jolly St. Joey but if something irks me I take care of it. What irks me is why persons think I have to become something other then what I am in order to give. I am most positive that whoever visits this site also visits other sites and possibly my site, that is if they were looking for pinstriping.
Don't patronize me.........
------------------ HotLines Joey Madden,47 years in the Classic Art of Pinstriping Grants Pass, Oregon Learn something...... http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
I hope you don't think I was being condescending. I was just talking from my heart. Seems like people get pissed off at me if I talk from my head.
*************
John, This is strictly an observation from where I sit and I am NOT pointing at ANYONE.
There are basically 3 types of posts - Instructional, Informational, and Opinion.
Some of us have been here for a long time and we've heard the same questions and answers over and over again. Frankly, we get bored. Some days I just can't stand to think about signs. I just get too burned out. Everything starts looking the same to me. Then there are the OT posts which pop up from time to time. For me, the political ones are the most fun. Yep. I said it. Its fun to me. You have the drama, the emotion, the mental exercise. Kinda like a good basketball game. The only time a problem comes up is when some joker comes in and deliberately tries to stir things up and ruin it for the rest of us by taking the discussion to a personal level.
Even when I put up an On Topic post, there are those who would rather create problems. So what does one do then?
As to the Portfolio page, I'm guilty. Until recently, I rarely visited it. Mainly because "out of site, out of mind." Personally, I'd like to see it merged back to the main forum. I think you'd see a bigger response.
It just seems to me that those who complain the most about OT posts don't participate in the On Topic posts that much either.
Shortly after that Mother's Day post fiasco, I decided to not start any more OT posts. And, that I wouldn't participate in them either unless I was mentioned in them or asked to participate. 'Cuz when I do, I really do. I realize that I'm a very blunt person and that I don't do a very good job of letting people know that I mean nothing personal by what I say.
posted
Being busy lately does not get me to the BB lately, but I try to skim through at least 4 topics every couple or three days. The remark of Joey caught my eye, and the responses too. Sure, a step-by-step would be nice, but as he has commented, that he has really gone the mile in donations and a step-by-step if one clicks on "his link below". Joey, if I may reflect back here on what it sounded like to me, is that not everything can be laid out over and over again. At some point and time, you would really like some payment or some return. I don't think this sounds selfish or out of line at all. It simply is defining a natural desire of your survival. I see that you have been generous in the past and have not squabbled about not being able to advertise on the bb, yet, continue to give cheerfully in all ways. I find your request very reasonable if that is what you desire out of your hard work. I am sure that not all will agree with me, but, nonetheless, I just felt the urge to reflect my feelings about your thoughts to be quite normal. (I know that we all choose the time that we charge for products and services too.I commend you for speaking about your feelings about this. How much would you think that your step-by-step will be?
------------------ Deb Creative Signs "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime."
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Joey I assume that you are a very good tradesman in your area.(I have never meet you).
And you have given your help to others in time passed. I have 25 years in the business and do not believe I know it all as I don't! It's only the last few years I have been working with the computer... I have seen help provided by Glenn, Dave, St.Pete and others that help myself understand different functions and achievements. They never asked myself for anything in return. We all have some little pearls of wisdom that we can share with everyone. And if you disagree with it! then tell me why and how you would do it and I will learn something new. In one of your posts above you state that to see others equal in the trade in years asking base questions about simple things.
A lot of these questions are about new products..I never heard of Pierre's clearcoat in my life until lately.
It's great seeing the feed back on the does and don't of anything. Rogers Rapid remover is something else I never dealt with as I have use other solvents in the pass but tried it! Not to bad for it's use. Your idea of using it as a brush cleaner is something I am going to try as well. You like using HOK for airbrushing and I like Createx Auto..We both have our reasons.
As far as paying for the services here is like a magazine on a day to day base. Were the merchants and members can interact with each other on new and old items. All for the betterment of the Trade.
If I owned a news stand I surely won't allow someone to walk up and flip through the books to read the articles and leave after he has read it from cover to cover. Sure flip through it and look at the contents and then buy it and take it home!
Steve and Barb have given us the opportunity to read this magazine. We all give some info freely but "they still own the store" and somehow its got to be paid for.
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Stephen, (guess we posted on the same minute.) I see your good points on the subject. I have those thoughts too, I do think that there is a free choice if someone wants to buy a cd of artwork gathered to use or a manual-type step by step that could be offered not on the bb, if one wanted to subscribe to download that. Of course, on the bb, (let me clarify), I do think that it is exclusively for sharing, and, my, are their many generous people here!
------------------ Deb Creative Signs "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime."
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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