posted
I think alot of us have something in common. We lack good signage for ourselves.
Why is it that it's easy to design for someone else but impossible for ourselves? Or is there another factor involved that holds us back from showing our best side on our own vehicles/buildings etc?
I've been homebased for 2 months now. I still don't have a sign on our front gate! I'm not even inspired to do one. I have no idea why. When I'm working, I work on jobs that pay, and during my time off, I'm doing home/personal stuff.
I don't even like my truck graphics. They aren't finished. I started three years ago. LOL!
I think it's time for me to 'book' in some of my own work. Blah. Why is it so hard?
For inspiration, perhaps we need a parade of well done signs and shop vehicles. I think I'll start a thread in the portfolio section.
I'd still love to hear comments why some think we aren't motivated in doing their own stuff.
posted
Ha! My first shop years ago didn't have a sign for about a year. It got to be a BIG joke with the neighbors. (a signlady without a sign). Now I am forever changing my truck lettering. Sometimes I want big and bold and LOOK AT ME.....othertimes I want subtle. sometimes ya feel like a nut......sometimes you don't........
posted
Hi, My name is Steve, and I too have a signage problem!.... I think that in my case at least I am never really sure if the one i design is REALLY that Special one!!! so I don't do it! And it would seem like defeat if someone else did one up for me! Anyway I think its time to swallow my pride and ask for a few ideas also!
------------------ Steve Garver Iola Computer Products Iola, Kansas sgarver@kscable.com
posted
Hi, Donna. Our situation is a bit odd. We primarily serve architects, general contractors and other sign shops. We have a relatively small (3x4) sign over the door. So little walk in business that I don't pay much attention to our building image. Been that way for 27 years in this location. Funny you mentioned it, and it made me think, we're a big-deal carving oufit around here, $25,000 murals, and we have a lousy little vinyl sign on our shop. Now you've made me feel bad.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Good topic! I have the same problem, i can design and produce signs for others, but have the toughest time creating logos, business cards, and signs for ourselves. I am working on a new sign for our shop. After months of kicking around designs, i am finally satisfied.
posted
Hi. My name is Chris and I have a signage problem too. (Does this remind anyone else of AA meetings?) I have discovered (or am blaming my lack of signage on) the fact that whatever I do for myself has to look incredible, it has to be oodles better than anything else I've done. And I can't get inspired. I have a lot of travel and while driving, I think of things. I have come up with a zillion designs (in my head) only to decide I hate them before I ever make it to sketching it out. I've always been "when I see it, I'll know". Well, I can't see it. I keep closing my eyes and looking, but all I see are my eyelids.
------------------ Chris King Paper Works & Graphix Indiana, PA
Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Whoa! This is scary! I'm here at the shop on a Sunday, trying to make some progress on my sign that has been in the works for... oh, two or three years now. I decide I'll log on to the Bullboard to throw out the SAME QUESTION you did to the 'Heads of the world. And lo, I find someone has beaten me to it. It's like you are reading my mail.
My problems are the same as yours: Is it good enough? Is it too fancy? Is it fancy enough? Is it even necessary? Why can't I make up my mind on the design? Every time I think I have one I like, I begin to doubt it. Should I put this in? Should I leave this out?
It goes on and on and I'm telling you, it's driving me nuts! That's why this sign has been "in production" for years. I think: my customers (even more importantly, my peers) are going to think that this is the VERY BEST I can do. After all, it's for my shop, therefore I will pull out all the stops for myself, won't I? As much as I'd like to, I don't feel like I can, because doing so would require so much in time and resources, and there are paying customers to keep happy. The questions go on and on, and meanwhile the installation of my new, whiz-bang sign is put off for another week, then month, then year.
Sorry. I just had to vent my frustration, and truthfully, it's comforting to know others are struggling with the same issue.
Now. I've got to get back to work on this thing, for better or for worse.
------------------
Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I posted my van lettering on the Portfolio page but thought I'd share a thought I have about the topic here.
I LIKE my "logo" and a lot of customers and potential customers also like it. BUT a lot also say it's exactly what they DON'T want for their "look".
I went for an "older style" of lettering that wasn't just a "type it in and crank it out" look so that people would realise that even though I use a computer, I can put some personality into the lettering.
I used SignGold to introduce people to the product.
I did some airbrush work to show how it can enhance a design.
I used vinyl for the job because that's what I do.
It took me about a month of spare time, agonizing, and "critiques" on #letterville chat to finalize the layout, and it has been on my van for almost 2 years, and I still like it. It isn't everyone's cup of tea and it wouldn't win any awards but it has generated business for me, especially SignGold business and it has provided a good reference point in finding out what kind of "look" potential customers are looking for.
Oh what the heck..I'll post it here too..Just because I happen to like it!!!
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited June 03, 2001).]
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Well Donna, now you know why plumbers have leaky faucets,roofers have leaky roofs and electricians have shorts. Oh and that beautician ...isn't she a fright.
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
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Keep it simple. 2 years ago I put one inch eurostyle letters one my truck with accudome just to "get by" until I got the "real" lettering on it. It got fantastic responses in that once you see it, you'll never forget it.
Nothin' fancy, just effective.
------------------ Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Alexandria VA
From here on down, its all up hill.
Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Donna, I am sitting here laughing at this post. I also have not made any real sign for my shop that I moved to in Jan. this year. In fact a couple of friends who own a sign shop from out of town stopped in to visit me one day and they really chewed on me about not having a sign up. Course they told me this with smiling faces so it made it all ok. lol I have huge store front windows and I just can't get going on them. Everyone's reply seems to hit home. Good post Donna. Also I think it would be great if we all can show our work when we do get them up. (of course that could be along time waiting ha? lol) Nancy
------------------ Nancy Blohm Design-A-Sign King City, CA 831-385-1062 fax 831-385-4999 bloomer@tcsn.net
Posts: 29 | From: King City,CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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As you know we have big signs on our trailers and our truck is all done up too. (Donna did all the lettering for us) Trouble is we are mostly our own client these days so the letering and graphics don't really matter. But it has always been a real high priority with us to get our trucks and trailers done as soon as we get them.
I'm already dreaming about the next shop vehicle (PT Cruiser) and the graphics are already planned out and the design done. Now I just gottat get the car. I'm just waiting for them to build a 2 door or panel version. Next year I'm told.
-dan
------------------ Dan Sawatzky Sawatzky's Imagination Corporation Cultus Lake , British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.ca
posted
Interesting topic! Way back when, as I was getting ready to come back East and open a shop after two years in Phoenix, I decided on a business name, drew a logo, and had my boss help me create my first carved and sandblasted sign. That was in 1988. I moved the shop four times before settling into my present, permanent location in '94. Because I am in a commercial condo, I cannot have my own sign out on the road, but I did some decent stuff on the shopfront itself. That original sign is still working, and looking fairly good with one repaint in fourteen years. When I made plans to buy the condo last year, I decided to letter the windows, which are 4'x6' vertical, and while it took about six months between start and finish, they are now done and display a fairly wide range of glass-gold technique.
As for the logo... I used the original design for a couple of years, then modified it for printing business cards. When I bought my currrent shop truck four years ago, it didn't "fit" the doors as I liked, so I re-designed it altogether. Then two years ago I decided to paint and decorated a big steel paint cabinet, and went with a "fire truck" look, all gold on bright red, and completely re-designed the logo for that. Because I liked the results, and the cabinet was roughly the size of the windows, I used that design on one window, and still another with different copy "Cameron Bortz SIGN Painter" on the other. My thoughts are that rather than have a consistent look throughout, I'm demonstrating how the same business name can have a completely different look according to how it's designed. One thing I'm absolutely convinced - if you don't have a good logo (or three!) on display, you are going to have a much harder time selling design work to your clients. Because I ENJOY designing so much, and because I'm my own best client, I don't have the "block" some people seem to have about doing my own.
By all means, do a sign for yourself. How often do you get to work with no budget restraints, no client approvals, no mongoloid "designer" waving a PMS book or trying to have you reproduce some horrific example of "nephew art"? Almost anything a halfway competent sign artist does for him/herself is likely to be better than 99% of what clients see elsewhere, and the neat thing is, if you don't like it, or just get tired of it, you can change it!!!!
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We have our shop in the lower level of a multi-use building in which we also live two floors up. We are also "Signless". We do have our logo on our mailbox and doorbell but that's it. I try to discourage clients from coming to our place. I'd rather meet at the location where we'll be doing the work, take some digital pix, and do sketches without the client breathing down my neck. We've been in this location for 5 years and never had a "Walk-in". This is by design, we decided that when we started out that most "walk-ins" are time wasters, or pricers. We also don't do any advertising at all, and our phone number is unlisted, we are by referral only, and HAPPY about it!
------------------ Tom & Sharon Giampia Creative Image Design Port Chester, NY
Posts: 285 | From: Port Chester | Registered: Mar 2001
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Looking around my home town at the other sign shops, very few have there own sign, except for the electrical sign companies.
The self employed 1 man shop never seems to have their trucks lettered up, and if they do the layouts are way less powerful than you would expect a sign shop to have. They seem to be lacking in nice exterior signage as well.
The bigger shops do. The owners of these shops just bark out orders to their workers and then head out on the golf course. So the workers, who don't give a care about the nitty gritty aspects of design and color, go ahead and knock out the sign and put it up. And surprisingly it looks good.
The point is....not having a sign is a weakness. If the competition in your area don't have a sign, its a weakness. Exploit that weakness. It shouldn't be to hard to make yourself look better than the rest, unless of course you are just like the rest.
Location is key to getting business, next is your image. I work from my home so I don't have location, but I do have the image and its working.
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My problem as well...when I started I created a logo and put it on my truck with some lettering on the rear windows (Suburban) and when we got the shop six months later I carved a redwood sign for the front of the building...well last year I did a facelift..new canopy, paint, but we took the sign down to do this and now til it's freshened I don't want to put it back up..I have two new (used) trucks with no lettering at all..the suburban got too expensive to run, and almost everyday I think I need to find time to do a sign but.... Thanks for the thought provoking post at least now I can tell my wife I'm not the only shop without a sign..but your right we are too overcritical for ourselves.
Dave
------------------ Ace of Signs Selinsgrove, Pa. www.aceofsigns.com
posted
My problem as well...when I started I created a logo and put it on my truck with some lettering on the rear windows (Suburban) and when we got the shop six months later I carved a redwood sign for the front of the building...well last year I did a facelift..new canopy, paint, but we took the sign down to do this and now til it's freshened I don't want to put it back up..I have two new (used) trucks with no lettering at all..the suburban got too expensive to run, and almost everyday I think I need to find time to do a sign but.... Thanks for the thought provoking post at least now I can tell my wife I'm not the only shop without a sign..but your right we are too overcritical for ourselves.
Dave
------------------ Ace of Signs Selinsgrove, Pa. www.aceofsigns.com
posted
Hello... My name is Don... and I have a signage problem.
Actually I have a decent sign out front. It has been there for too many years, and is starting to show it. I just can't seem to get it replaced.
I think the biggest problem is, when we design for customers, we show them a few sketches to chose from. They have no idea of all the possibilities we thought of that they are not seeing. When we try to design for ourselves, we know ALL of the possibilities. Which ones should we use???
I think Cam may have the right idea. Do several, and at least one of them should look good to anyone that comes in.
------------------ Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane.
Posts: 2312 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Hi, I'm Dave and I too have a signage problem, and I thought I was the only one. I agree with Don 100%. I spent years trying to design my own logo. Knowing all the possibilites made it very difficult to decide what to do. I finally came up with a design I like and immediatly put it on my shop truck, BUT, I have been in my new shop for 2 years now and still no sign. I need 2 actually. I have 20 acres on a major highway, but the shop entrance is off a county road.
I've had the poles up for a sign at my drive entrance since I built the shop. Going all out on that one, sandblasted, carving, gold leaf, smalts, airbrushing. The one for the highway is the problem. It's a marshy area, wet enough that drilling holes is not an option. So I have to go to the expense of having a larger hole dug, probably with forms to pour a concrete base with steel pole.
I know I'm losing business, but at the same time I'm too busy satisfying paying customers to make my own sign. I have vowed to have at least the driveway sign done by July and the highway sign by August.
------------------ Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 ICQ: 21604027 sherwood@up.net
Or Stephen to the people that know me... It is the one area I truly put my heart and soul into. I have seen to many ABC companies and the Someday Signs that use very little talent to their own image. Doesn't reflect the quality of business that they can do. I have a home base operation and do not advertize here. But the Sales car is a Saturn (Black of course) with Sign gold pinstripping. Name of the company with Airbrushed work as well... My wife calls it the "Lady Diana Limo" I have a little to much on it as overkill.. But people still turn and look as I am stopped or driving by!
They yellow pages are the next place I take care of as I want something to jump out and say "Years of Experience and Quality!"
Still only a black and white add but it has punch to it! Full airbrush brush and Raven artwork.
One of my last companies was called Artisan Signs, and I owned a ford 3/4 ton pick up on one week end I started lettering it up at the campgrounds we stayed at! (Hot day with beer in hand!)
I gain more business from people walking by and watching. Even the owner and myself worked out a deal that I never paid yearly rent for 4 years as he needed something in Adds as it was the biggest Bluegrass Festival Area in N.S. Lots of work to be had.
If I don't like the image I peel it and put something fresh on it...
No harm as I will use anything that is left over from a customers job....
Oh by the way my slogan is "Letting Your Imagination Run Wild!"
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
[This message has been edited by Stephen Deveau (edited June 04, 2001).]
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Hello, My name is Gary, wifes name and co-hort "Dawn"... We have a sign "image" problem. I feel better now that I've finally admitted outloud, I'm STUCK. Mental block. I've done and redone and redid our logo and design so many times my head hurts. Then I also realize less is better and again I start all over. I have a customer that is so happy with the graphics we did on his trailer, he's chomping at the bit to help us advertise our logo on his trailer. Sometimes I wish I could afford to have someone else design it for us and I know I would either be happy with it or at least use it as a template to come up with something that would satisfy me. Our other problem, (now taken care of) a vehicle to put it on. Our only source of advertisement. We had to give up out truck. The lease was up. So now we have, as of last friday. A 95 aerostar van . Plum Red in color. So now I'm starting all over today. AGAIN. Thanks Donna for starting this post. Gary H.
------------------ Gary&Dawn Hoopes SignCountry Overland Park, Ks. 913 831-1152
Posts: 40 | From: Overland Park, Kansas USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
kewl! i thought maybe i was the only one without a sine, cuz i'm a beginner. i was actually sketching designs for my truck this morning... and then ran into a snag.
i have a 94 Toy pickup. i don't think i'll have it more than a year or two more, so i don't want to "mess it up" with a "permanent" sign. but i don't want a magnetic (the kids in my 'hood rip em off). does it make sense to paint on some vinyl, and then stick the vinyl to the truck? or do you apply the vinyl and then paint it? (i was goint to ask this in a general posting anyway, because i was wondering what customers with leased vehicles ask for). my sign idea is a faux beveled turquoise with "chrome" edging. (i'm doing the Southwest turquoise and silver motif). i'm not good enough to "get it right" the first time, so i didn't want to paint directly on the truck.
as for other signs, my "shop" is not in a legal commercial location, so i cant put a sign up. i was going to make a sandwich board to tote around for when i'm on site -- sort of a fancy version of the "caution - men at work" sign, to keep people from bumping into me, and to promote the biz at the same time.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I can't believe my eyes folks! I think we need to challenge ourselves here!
Here's the deal. Once this post slows down, I'm going to calculate all the names and make a list of those that 'need to get with it.' I'll start another post where you can post your NEW graphics. We can then literally watch the names removed one by one on the list as you post your work.
How's that for inspiration? Shame works wonders! LOL! Anyone up for that?
I don't know about the rest of you, but each time I read this thread I get shamed all over again. Just last night was the first time in a looong time I layed in bed attempting to dream up some hot new graphics for the truck.
Try scheduling in your work during your day somewhere and let's see if that doesn't help. No playtime outdoors till you finish your work!
posted
Maybe we can draw names and help with a design for for someone else.... We get the name of someone else, then try to come up with some ideas for there business. If they just need help with a sign they are already working on, or need a complete makeover. And if you then can't come up with something you like after a few days rotate to someone else and see what they can do. after a day or two switch partners and try again. after a few days or week you would have several other ideas to help make you choice easier.. anyone game??
------------------ Steve Garver Iola Computer Products Iola, Kansas sgarver@kscable.com
posted
I'm okay with the idea of the shame list, Donna. I just figured since I have some slow time and I can't get inspired to do my signage, I'd work on other stuff. I'm currently working on some antique looking signs.
------------------ Chris King Paper Works & Graphix Indiana, PA
Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Donna ,ive just done the deed on the portfolio page My view is that in this work if you can't do something for yourself how can you expect a customer to want what your offering it doesn't have to be the best, it doesn't have to use every trick in the book but it should show to customers that a sign /truck it is worth having done Anyone looking to buy from yellow pages is influenced only by the design of the tradesmans ad and we all know how misleading they can be Use every opportunity to show what you can do and WANT to do I dont run any ads in phone books ive got more response from parking my van outside customers premises sure,like most of us I am never satisfied I constantly want to change stuff but thats what makes this job so enjoyable My street rod is always being altered even each side is different ,our vehicles are a canvas-I think Cheryls idea is good ,changing her truck lettering layout constantly ,keeps it fresh for customers and herself be loud, be proud
Terry
------------------ Terry Bull Sign & Custom 12 Cresthill Avenue Grays Essex RM17 5UJ England http://www.wagonsforwalls.co.uk http://www.signandcustom.co.uk
posted
This is so kewl, I'm surprised that Professor Fisher (Bloke-) had not posted.
He did some signs for himself, on his own personal property and got blasted with work. While playing scrabble one day/evening (depending on which side of the board you are hahaha) he was saying, "Linda, by the way, I got (# = plural) jobs today from my sign(s)...the damn things actually work!"
Reckon! I'm too a frustrated designer and would like to take the challenge, I think.
posted
I have stayed away recently....as I am fed up with the other types of posts....and have better things to do with my time.
That said I logged on today (monday) and thought I would resurrect your post Donna, I am amazed that more sign shops have not shared their stuff with you and the others here.
You remember a few years ago that I naively, "borrowed" the basics in Jay Allen's logo. I like many others am capable of designing good stuff for customers but its always hard to find something you like yourself, or at least that's what I felt. Anyhow I live on another continent, and have developed it abit more. One of these days I will rework the whole lot.....but its quite involved with different vehicles, business stationary..clothing etc.
Anyway here is a picture of my workshop sign, my Volvo, and the shop truck.
------------------ Henry Barker #1924 akaKaftan SignCraft AB Stockholm, Sweden. A little bit of England in a corner of Stockholm www.signcraft.se info@signcraft.se
Posts: 1552 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Nov 1998
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