I know how 1-Shot metallic gold works, I know how to brush it, pinstripe with it yada yada yada, for 30 years now.
But, I have never used bronzing powders, don't know how they work or why I need to use them!
The Paint I need to use on the upcoming Cathedral ceiling project needs to match what the other "bead and real" painters are using.
The concern of mine is that they are putting bronzing powders in LATEX base paints.... and I really don't like the idea of hand painting LATEX for the ornamental flourishes I will be doing.
Does 1-Shot match these bronzing add-ins or do painters use this to make the paint look brighter.
If I have to use the bronzing powder, can I mix it in an OIL base sign paint?
Any experienced sign crafters comments appreciated. Thanks!
------------------ Go Get 'Em..... :) AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I mix bronzing powders in screen ink all the time. The trick is getting enough powder in the clear to be opaque but not too much so that there's actually powder on the surface after the paint dries. I've used them in laquers, vinyls and enamels with good results.
------------------ Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modz@traverse.com
Posts: 1357 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hi Dave. Back in the "old days" there was a trick used by a few signpainters whereby you'd make up a pounce bag with the bronzing powder, letter with imitation gold, and when it became "tacky", you simply lightly dusted the surface of the lettering with the bag. In doing the gold this way however, a clear topcoat would have to be added. The advantage was that you could get a nice even gold finish, with no brush marks.
You might want to try a small experimental piece using this technique...you may find that you'll like the effect. The main disadvantage would be having to apply the clearcoat after the gold is dry.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
posted
Dave, Ive used Ken's trick a lot...size as for a gold job..then I dust the powder on with a watersize brush...and try to scoop up excess...draw back is clear coat...and drawback number two...which should be number one....is..its REAL messy..!It works nice though..and there are a lot of different shades and tones of powder....comes out bright and smooth ..just like gold... Just a thought...why not use real gold?
posted
This sounds like a catch 22 situation. Getting something that will brush out with any decency AND getting it to match what the other painters are using is going to be the hard part. I've never run across any brand of gold that brushed worth a flip especially if you had to come back over it picking up a stroke or crossing over. Gold is also really, really hard to tint, doesn't allow much leeway. It might be easier to figure out how to struggle with what the other painters are using rather than trying to match it with something that still isn't going to flow worth a crap. What kind of finish is their paint drying to, flat? Any differences in dry finishes, flat vs. glossy, are going to be noticible.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
You can buy these powders in a wide variety of metal colors....They have to be mixed with clear, and as someone has already stated, you have to add enough to "shine out" or it will only look vague/pale and not brilliant. The amount used is different with each type, but approx. a half pint to a pint per gallon of clear. If you get to much your paint base will degrade to a level that will deteriorate quickly. I have never used in in water based products though T shirt screeners do, but have screen printed it a lot on glass. Quite honestly, for painting reasons I would go to and automotive store and have a pint of automotive paint mixed to match your situation. If you choose to mix it yourself,,,,try to imagine how many leaves you would need to dump into a baby swimming pool to get a suspended leaf look in it. Leave not just on the bottom, but no leaves protruding out of the water. Bronzing powders are merely what the make metallic paints and plastics with. Don't breathe the dust while you are mixing. Cheers, Bronzeo
------------------ Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com bronzeo@prodigy.net http://www.imagemakerart.com
Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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The painter/artist stopped by to show me what he had come up with concerning the bronzing powder-water latex mix.
He had a solution mixed up, very creamy, and I brushed some on some slick card stock with his brushes ( more like canvas art bushes ) and it worked really slick!
Soooo, I cleaned out my 3/4 inch flat and dipped it in expecting the worse, and to my surprise it worked! I could brush his solution on and flow it out just like 1-Shot metalic gold. (maybe even better) and it didn't streak.
Next to clean the brush I dipped it in some mineral spirits...that didn't work so well, so I cleaned it out in the kitchen sink with running water....gasp....but it seem to do the trick. I dried it out and fluffed the hairs back up, kissed it, put lard oil back on it and put it back to bed with my other brushes!
IT WORKS! IT WORKS! IT WORKS
I just learned to work with a new media and you guys had years of experience to share as well, and I really appreciate every comment!
Thanks again! ( don't ya just love this place called Letterville? )
------------------ Go Get 'Em..... :) AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've done this type of job on windows using aluminum powder - it used to be called "A Dynamite Job" and is explained, I believe, in E.C. Matthews' 1954 book - using quick size varnish mixed with white lettering enamel. The pounce bag I use is made of upholsterers' velvet. Problem is the mess; a lot of the powder will fall down. When doing this on a window I first mask below the work area with wet newspaper, otherwise there's never going to be a cleanup. I can't imagine doing this on a ceiling but the same method works with other metallic powders. I've tried the One Shot and it doesn't work for me. Mixing the powder in varnish does me better.
I wonder what the end result will be for your brush putting it in water then oil over and over. Even once.
------------------ "If it isn't fun, why do it?" Signmike@aol.com Mike Languein Doctor of Letters BS, MS, PhD ___________________
You know what BS is, MS is More of the Same, and it's Piled Higher and Deeper here
posted
Dave, The big Q I have is "How do you prevent tarnishing?" Any of the dusted techniques will darken rather quickly. Mixing it with varnish only slows it down. The 1-Shot stuff takes a few weeks to darken here, and covers so poorly it's frustrating to work with. Automotive finishes do the trick, but require spray application. Sounds like it's time for the Prince of Wilmington Blvd. to speak! O.K. Rick Glawson, the floor is yours.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I could see how paint would tarnish exposed to sun light...but this is on a ceiling 90 feet above the floor....where the lighting is already sort of dim ( at least up there)
After a few years, even the regular paint up there would get dingy, right? You should see all the years of dust piled up on the tops of some of the plasted ornaments way up there where no janitor has gone before! hahhahahahh
Mike.....I didn't bid this job for pouncing bronze over paint and cleaning up the mess.... I gonna have to paint full speed with zero tolerance on mess, drips, yada yada yada!
And I expect to ruin several brushes along the way. So I'm experimenting with alot of brushes that will allow for speed and accuracy...sign brushes or other ( even foam)
I have very high accuracy goals on this job, but then again...NOBODY IS GONNA SEE SLIGHT HOLIDAYS IN THE PAINT FROM 90 FEET!
------------------ Go Get 'Em..... :) AKA Raptorman on #Letterheads mIRC Chat Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA
Proud 2-yr. $upporter of this Web Site (May 1999-May 2001)
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hi Dave, Long time no post, so how ya doin' yadayada (quote).. Here's a little more to add to Mike Languin's post and Rick's too. We would carry around a powder puff in the kit for "dynamite" work which was to lay the powder on a Chrome yellow surface and apply it lightly so's not to lose too much of the yellow when the powder went to the the tarnished look. Sometimes we would do a window in reverse (letter with clear tinted with Chrome yellow, just a touch so yooz could see it and then "Dynamite" when ready)usually a heavier amount went on. At the time it was advisable to add a disclaimer to the low budget client about tarnishing. In them old days the 'Snappers" would do a "Dynamite" run on unsuspecting merchants and blow town before the first tarnish took effect. So Dave, just do a nice Gold vinyl job and save the headaches and theres plenty of Gold paint around for doing large areas.
Thas'it...........Crazed
------------------
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
As Rick said, the bronzes will always tarnish from impurities in the ambient air, not from exterior exposure. Many of the deep gold colors will take longer to tarnish than others. Any amount of sulfur in the clears or sizing will also speed up the process. It does not matter which medium the bronze powder is mixed into, if it is bright, then the bronze is near the surface where it can tarnish. For interior work, top coat clears are not subject to UV breakdown so bronzes should be cleared. Used either a solvent based acrylic, water white true spar, a waterbournce acrylic or pure white shellac. This will slow the tarnishing, however, bronzes will always darken over time. I think you made the right choice as even if you could match the bronze powder itself, the medium will change the appearance enough to eliminate any chance of a color match.
------------------ Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio Greeley, Colorado, USA kent@smithsignstudio.com
Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks!
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