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Well, I have had some interesting in-put in regards to doing signage......I am getting e-mail saying that when we do a project.........the customer has no right to alter/change/or remove................the orignal work that we have done! Now, I don't care if it's Vinyl Graphics, Hand Painted, or, etched in stone.....what I sell is a product...........it is art, but, it is also signage.............Should the customer choose to alter/change/or remove/and/or destroy the signage, why would this effect me?.....This subject could go on to..........did you get paid for the art work/and/or the logo design..........etc...........did you register the art work/etc................my opinion is.....you get paid to do work for a customer...no matter what the substrate...vehicle/wall/window/etc., they own it!..........I sold it to them.....do I have a right to dictate what they do with what they paid for............just curious........Ron
------------------ "Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most" Ron Norwood 6732 Raleigh Street Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1 Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899 email.hitest@mailcity.com
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As far as I am concerned;it is "art" on demand!I create it,they buy it.What they do with it after words is up to them.This is a classic case of a"temporary"banner that the customer is ONLY going to use for a short while.Once again,it doesn't matter how long or how often they use it to me as It took the same amount of time to produce! I paint - You pay
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Patty O'King got it. They paid, they own it. Period.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
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Hey they can destroy whatever they want.. it's their money they're throwing away..If they want to rip the vinyl off their vehicle or throw away an acrylic menuboard, hey that's up to them.
Now, the artwork itsself is another issue.
If I design something for a customer, a logo, graphics, whatever and they dont want to purchase the rights to the artwork, it's mine, plain and simple. I can reproduce it at will, however they cannot.. they did not buy the artwork nor a license to use it, they only bought a product that uses the artwork as an integral part of the design. If they come to me to get the artwork for some other use, like a business card or t-shirt, they wont get it without purchasing another license for that one specific use. I've built relationships with all the t-shirt guys, printers, even other sign shops in town for this very purpose. We do send each other vector artwork ready to go, but it's always paid for. If I design the logo and the customer wants biz cards printed with it, I'll send the ready artwork to the printer and the printer will collect a setup fee from the customer and forward me 75% of it. I do the same for them. So, either way we're all getting paid for our artwork. 75% may not be as much as I'd like sometimes (like if a shop only charges $25 setup) but it does eliminate any hard feelings between shops since nobody's going behind anyone's back.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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This post reminds me of a multi-layered dimensional sign I made several months back. Of course I made it look naturally aged and distressed as they directed but it apparently wasn't enough for them. They had their interior decorator/painter indiscriminately smear beige and black paint all over it until there was little contrast or definition left. I was very annoyed as was the designer of the logo but what could we do. They paid for it and as far as I was concerned it belonged to them. I certainly have distanced myself from the project and would never use it in my portfolio. In fact I worry that it would reflect badly on me if it became well known that I was responsible for that sign. For a time I even considered buying it back just to get it off the street!
Happy Signing......Marty
------------------ Marty Happy Signmaker Since 1974 Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4
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Hey Glen............no matter what...I will not do signage on "depends".....lol
------------------ "Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most" Ron Norwood 6732 Raleigh Street Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1 Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899 email.hitest@mailcity.com
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Sometimes this idea of "ownership" is disturbing. Whether it's an idea or a design or a car or a piece of planet earth. I kinda think stewardship is different than ownership. There's an ongoing display of responsible behavior. How old is the idea of private property? How old is the idea that intangebiles, like ideas, can be owned? Sometimes we get a tad petty over this stuff.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Artwork isnt much different from music or software.
When you "buy" music or software, the music/software isnt actually yours with which to do whatever you wish. You are purchasing a license to use that copy for yourself. It is not yours to distribute or display/perform publically nor duplicate for any reason except as a personal back-up should your original become damaged.
I look at artwork in the same way.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Signage, no matter how artisticly that it is formed is informational signage, usually used for advertising. You use your design talents to put a sign together, just as you would to build a home. It is the property of those who pay for our commissioned services, that own "title" to these signs. Fine art and it's extended uses, come under totally different laws of protection. You can of course copyright a particular designed logo under art laws, but not layouts, coloration, sign shapes, techniques, etc. Actually when you are commissioned and paid to create a logo for a business, I think you will find that they have "automatic" rights to it's uses from the moment that they get it, unless you have contracted otherwise. I feel that if you want to put strings on your creation, turn your chair around to a canvas and start your masterpiece there where you have full protection and rights. This being said, I find a lot of signage displayed on this board to appear as fine art. There was a question about licensing lingo. I don't think it is necessary for signage or logo, unless you feel you need to keep some of the ownership to yourself as the creator. As for myself, I really don't think that is fair to my customer in most cases. I do have one instance where I took company stock, in the place of money. Bronzeo
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I have to agree with all of the above..Dan & Jack & even Pierre...lol...I think we can get caught up in design and creative stuff............like Dan say's..get paid up-front for your art work..............I have a situation right now, where the BCLC (British Columbia Liquor Commission) has just cchanged their regulations (again) my customer does'nt know if any of his signage is legal.........all or some of it has to go....But, I, will be paid for the new signage............he owns the old........Ron
------------------ "Of all the things I've lost in my life...I miss my mind the most" Ron Norwood 6732 Raleigh Street Vancouver, BC V5S 2X1 Phone/Fax: (604) 437-0899 email.hitest@mailcity.com
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