posted
Got an email this morning from Brian Snyder at Sign Solution here in my backyard in NJ. Seems Brian stumbled upon another zign companies web site that was passing on my work as if it were there own.
Ain't that something? They had two pictures of my trucks in their sign gallery. From the looks of their work, it appeared obvious of why they needed to pass off someone else's work.
So I emailed them and phoned them, and told them to take it down immediately. They were of course, very apologetic.
This theft of everybody's property is getting way out of hand. If they resort to that, they have to be dishonest in other areas of business. What a shame. It hurts everyone that is trying to run an honest business.
Thanks for sharing.
Would it help if we all gang up and flood them with a flam-e-mail?
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited May 08, 2001).]
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The same thing has happend to me more than once. Someone stole an entire photo album of airbrush work years ago. I hope it got them a nice job. The funny part is, if you have to steal the photos, you obviously can't do the work. That makes it pretty easy to get caught with your pants down.
posted
There is a former employee of mine going around getting work by saying she used to work for me. The sad fact is, she never did anything for me except paint backgrounds and weed vinyl. She is building a reputation though that will be her downfall....she is a semi competent amatuer painter, but she lies, and never shows up when she says....the customer base won't stand for that for long. Same thing with the other problems mentioned in this thread....the truth will come out, and the last man standing wins.
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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View the source on any page on my site and at the very top of the code there's a free javascript. I got the code from a free java/cgi library online somewhere.
It disables right-clicking and puts up a message you can customize.
For visitors that dont know the work-arounds, it's a fantastic way to keep people from copying your images.
Of course the work-around is as simple as viewing the page source and copying the URL from the HTML, or using the PrintScreen button to do a screen grab.. but the average 'net user doesnt know that. =)
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike I went to you site to see about what you were talking about. Very Cool! "Thank you for visiting this Site!" Can this program also tell you the address of the person trying to do the Grabbing?
------------------ Raven/2001 Airbrushed by Raven Lower Sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Stephen, unfortunately the script doesnt tell ya who's trying to snag the images but I do think there are some similar programs out there that do.
There's actually a number of programs available that lock images to websites, make them unprintable, disable the PrintScreen button, make the image unaccessible by any means other than being linked to another page, and disable the "Save Image As" option on the regular right-click menu.
Another way to do it is to build pages that are generated on the fly by the server, using databases. This way if someone views the source for a page, there's actually no reference to images in it so they cant see where the images are on the server. You could even password protect the image directory this way, and code the ID and password required right into the script that generates the pages.
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Sorry to hear that Dan. It takes a very small person to do that. Must not have any confidence at all. Good thing Brian saw that. Man, what some people won't do. WHat would they have done if a customer would have wanted it just like one of your jobs? Mind boggling these things are. What a world.
------------------ John Deaton III Deaton Design 109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101
posted
This reminds me of an old automotive van & truck portfolio of mine that disappeard around 1981. After I began teaching vinyl graphics classes for Arlon in 1983 or so, one of the trips they sent me on was to CherryHill New Jersey. Lo and behold, one of the students in that class had it with him! At first he said it was his work, but when I confronted him he said he had paid $75 for it in Denver Colorado. An "Installer" sold it to him. I gave him the benfit of the (high) doubt and told him to keep it as "representative" of, but not as, his own work. He ended up being a new Arlon customer.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
By Dan’s comments, it doesn’t appear to be the case in his situation, but let me ask you a question similar in nature…
If you lettered a vehicle for someone that already had an existing logo, a logo that was not created by you, a logo/layout that you did not alter but just reproduced on another vehicle or sign, and you put a picture of that completed work in your portfolio, are you stealing someone’s work?
I have been involved in both sides of this issue.
The case of the reproduction done on our part was due to the fact the customer did not like dealing with the original shop. The feeling was they received poor service in past commerce with that shop and made a concise choice not to patronize that shop again. Time came to letter a new van (identical year, make, color, etc..) and we were fortunate to be the selected shop of choice. We did an exact match of the color and layout. If a picture of the vehicle we lettered was put up on the web, someone may have been under the impression we stole the work from the original shop, which was not the case.
The case of the reproduction done on the part of another shop was due to the fact the customer did not like the time frame or the price that was quoted to them. In essence, they fired us. They paid for the original artwork that was created and they paid for their first vehicle lettered by us previously in the same year. They chose another shop to do their second vehicle. Did that second shop steal our design? In my opinion, no! Was I happy about it, no! It was a business decision made on our part, their part, and the other sign shop’s part.
For some footnotes.
We did not “sign” the work we reproduced, nor is it in the vehicle portfolio that customers see upon request. We did however, have a picture of it on file and would, on occasion, show it to certain people because of the unique color combination that was used. At no time did we attempt to misrepresent the events that happened. But we did have a picture of the work that we performed.
The customer that “fired” us returned when it was time for their third vehicle to be lettered. The found the grass not to be greener on the other side. The work appeared to be the same, but the quality was not. Long story short, vehicle number two was re-lettered by us after number three was done. While this customer “fired” us, their picture was not in our vehicle portfolio either. It was returned to the portfolio after we regained control of the account.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
I received a reply from the email I sent to the offending web site.
It said, that basically, they we're showing what prismatic lettering WOULD look like, and that it wasn't meant to mean that it was their work....He said he bought my fonts from a distributor, and took the images of their site, not mine. In any event, he's taking the pics off.
Of course, in the absence of a credit to me, whats the average viewer supposed to think?
A pretty lame excuse...
Anyway, thanks for all the responses. As far as showing a logo design that was from a previous sign company, I wouldn't personally display it in my portfolio. I've got enough original design work in it, plus, I don't think it's right.
And Mike, that Javascript code is way cool! Thanks for the tip.
posted
I got one for ya. The previous owner had a customer that built a 2.2 million dollar ice rink and was calling it Avalanche ??? He had Vision Graphics do a logo and so the Norma, the previous owner had Matt (now my production manager) do the artwork. Matt took a clipart image of a polarbear out of a clipart book from the early 80's and then he found some clip art of a hockey player. He fit the head from the bear and the body from the player together and then treaked it here and there. Low and behold this now becomes they logo that is spread all over everything. The name of the rink was even changed to the Polar Palace. The image is on center ice of both rinks, on the rugs as you walk in, all over every teams jersey's, in the phone book, etc. Needless to say they are cashing in on this neat image.
I got a call 10 days ago from the owner and he says that while he has been trying to copyright this image, he found out that the embrodery guy that he gave the image to, to put on their jerseys, went and copyrighted it in his own name. Now the owner was hoping we could help. Fortunately we had dated faxes with artwork approvals, some of the old clipart, etc. Enough ammo for the owner. Too bad Matt didn't copyright it and he could have cashed in on some royalities.
------------------ Laura Butler Vision Graphics and Sign 560 Oak St. Lapeer, Mi 48446 810-664-3812 visiongraphics@tir.com
"Anything thats comes from my shop, comes from the right brain."
Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I have to agree with both Bob and Dan. On my website I show samples of my work.
Most of the designs on trucks, boats and commercial signs are my own. In the cases where they are not, I took care to mention that I worked from a "customer supplied" rendering.
I am regularly required to reproduce existing boat names on sailboats that have been refurbished/refinished and I feel that it is within my rights to display my abilities to do so, as long as I acknowledge that the original design was provided to me.
I guess the same could be said about displaying a picture of a job that involved corporate logos. Obviously I didn't create the logo, I would only be advertising the fact that I could "produce" them. I can't see any harm in that as long as I don't take credit for the original design.
I admire your work Dan..and..YES..I have used elements of you work in mine in the past, as I have, that of numerous other very talented artists. As someone says in their "tag line" (I think it is Daniez) "there is nothing new under the sun".
I love being able to view and be influenced by other's work and will continue to do so..BUT I wouldn't presume to take credit for someone else's designs.
Heck..I LIKE the "logo" on my van..I got the "idea" from a picture on this website from the Vinton Walldog meet. My "logo" is nothing like the wording that was on the wall there, and the actual letters aren't either, but if someone wanted to REALLY compare things they could definitly see a similarity. It is just the "look" that is similar.
Enough from me...Sorry to hear about the piracy Dan. THAT is a REAL ripoff!
(Just wish I was good enough to have someone want to rip me off like that!)
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted
Hi Dan', I can only say that when you are robbed of art and it is peddled as someone else's, thats gettin'yer back up time. I think we touched on this area on the font weasel post. A visit to this critter may be in order just to let the perp know he's out of line. While you are there you can also mention that it's flattering to have your stuff shown and offer some advice as well as letting this person know that we are sharing folks but no stealing allowed. Give the guy a chance to explain what is on his mind and maybe he just wants a little coaching. Let him know about Letterville and how this joint can be helpful but he gots to redeem or get out. We've all borrowed from someone. I got a lot of ideas from the shelves at the super market and had some journeymen to lend a hand with design sometimes. Be forgiving but hold your ground on the stealing business. Thas'it.................CrazyJack
------------------ Jack Wills Studio Design Works 6255 Brookside Circle Rocklin, CA 95677 writer@quiknet.com
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Are any of these (at the above site) your fonts? Some looked similar. It's not a Type1 fonts link, they just have .gifs of the entire alphabet to copy and cut and paste for "logo's". I copied some down to print and practice my carving on SignFoam. Some of them also look strikingly familiar... thoughts that came to mind were some Art teacher gave an assignment to color in an alphabet and this guy posted them, or font pirates 101.
The researching the web for Tips & Tricks side of the Moon
------------------ The Moon aka: Stefenie Harris Moonlight Designs Pollock Pines, CA learnin' somethin' new every day!
[This message has been edited by The Moon (edited May 09, 2001).]
Posts: 550 | From: Pollock Pines, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I also posted this on kissymasina's thread...
I put this at the bottom of all of my e-mails and faxes with layouts...
Any artwork contained in this message is the COPYRIGHT property of Sign Man, Inc. and may not be re-transmitted to parties outside of the intended firm's agents. Original artwork, layouts, concepts or any other creative design remains the property of Sign Man, Inc. Any misuse of the copyright laws may result in legal action. These include but are not limited to: business cards, letterheads, magazine and print media, t-shirts, web sites, digital media or any other reproductive use. Established corporate logo's and artwork remain the property of their respective organizations.
------------------ Pat Neve, Jr. Sign Man, Inc. 4580 N. US 1 Melbourne, FL 32935 321-259-1703 signman@signmaninc.com Capt. Sign Letterville Constituent constituent: "One of the individual entities contributing to a whole"
Posts: 2284 | From: Melbourne, FL, USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
This goes on all the time with franchises. The formula is simple: Take photos of some of the best work in the franchise circle, print a brochure, and give it to franchises worldwide as a representaive of the worh they actually do.
Next question: I design a sandblasted sign, neon and channel lettering. It's digitzed, manufactured, and installed by subcontractors.
Does the picture belong in MY book?
------------------ Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Alexandria VA
From here on down, its all up hill.
Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I stopped by a buddys recently opened shop and checked out his portfolio, in it were photos of my work and a bunch of photos cut out of SignCraft Magazine! When I asked him about it he said that he was only showing what kind of work he could do. Yeah, right.
I also had a bunch of faux finish samples taken by a "former" freind, he borrowed them to show a client, when I asked for them back he says "sue me"! Some people! I knew he had not filed income tax for several years and he had just sold some rental property so I reported him to the IRS. Revenge IS sweet.
------------------ Robert Thomas Creative Signs In Beautiful Naples, Fl.
[This message has been edited by Robert Thomas (edited May 12, 2001).]
Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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1) You designed it! 2) The other company the made it was your subcontractor working for you.
As far as lighted signs go, I don't manufacture them. I design them complete with specifications. Just because it was manufactured by another company for me doesn't mean I don't deserve the credit for the sign.
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