posted
Alright, I'm having major problems and need help soon. I have just started doing signs and have done several race cars for area tracks. I have a car that was painted Thursday, washed Friday, I lettered it Saturday. I use rapid-tac religiously, always using it to clean surfaces, wipe dry, then respray to apply big stuff. The car had been washed Friday, but I always clean surfaces with rapid-tac before applying. I cleaned the deck lid a couple times (same as hood and roof) because they collect more dust than body panels. I then applied the graphic for the deck lid. It came right off. It WILL NOT stick. There are 3 parts to the deck lid, graphic wise. There is a picture of a mouse with the word mouse beside it and a line of text under that. The mouse graphic stayed. The text did not. I use MacTac vinyl, same as the rest of the car. I don't know if there is something on the deck lid (overspray?) that isn't letting the adhesive set up or what. I have ruled out the vinyl, since part of the graphic stayed and I didn't have problems with any of the other graphics. I would think if there was something on the deck lid, that nothing would have stuck. I would also think it would be everywhere, not just the deck lid or at least on all the flat surfaces like the roof and hood). I left the mouse graphic on, to see what happens. Went to the track Saturday night and it was still there when they loaded the car and took it home after racing it. Any ideas, suggestions, voodoo ceremonies I should try?
Roger, I don't know if it'll work or not, but I remember seeing something about rapid prep (is that it?). Would that maybe be what I need? If so, could I pretty please with sugar on top and a cherry get some samples?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Everyone here has given me so much useful knowledge, I am forever indebted to all of you. For the few posts I've done and for all the threads everyone else has started, I will never cease to be amazed at how incredible this place is and how wonderful the people here are.
------------------ Chris King Paper Works & Graphix Indiana, PA
Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I don't know if this will help or not, but some vinyl is supposed to go on dry.
The local Sign-A-Rama didn't know that either and screwed up two major van letterings using application fluid. They had to do both vans over, and the customer came to me after they failed twice. They sure like to learn the hard way!
I put the graphics on dry with no problem.
You probably should prep with alcohol. Maybe they cleaned the car off with Windex or maybe they waxed it....who knows? Alcohol will bite through any film left from cleaners and help cut through the any wax.
Roger Bailey has some good products; they work. But sometimes it takes spit to do the job (in other words there are products available that will clean without leaving a film and are available locally).
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited May 07, 2001).]
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You will hear other info from others but years of testing and experiance is what I give you !!
First, you need Rapid Tac II for that vinyl, and you need to make sure you have the "cheapest paper towell possible" from grocery store !!
If you use "super absorbent" or any of that stuff you will smear chemicals all over the surface !
Don't clean with window cleaners nor wax & grease removers, nor alcohol. They will NOT clean your surfase, if your vinyl dosn't bond right away, then spray some Rapid Tac under the vinyl and pull it back up. Then, clean with Rapid Prep and re-clean with Rapid Tac II, and re-apply. That will solve your problems, unless your vehicle was painted with SICKENS paint(this paint has silicone in it, and resists bonding !!
Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
I strongly disagree with not using alcohol as a cleaner. It was years of testing by corporations that make foam tape that make that recommendation.
just FYI
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Get To A Letterhead Meet This Summer! See you there! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dave, "respectifully" I disagree. Rapid Tac products don't require any other cleaners in they're use.(application fluids and Prep) Cleaning with one of the above is all that is necc.
Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
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I just wish ALL products worked as good as Rapid Prep, sure would make life easier. I've been using it exclusively for a year and a half and the stuff can't be beat. I haven't had one problem with it. If my paint is crawling it's because the surface was painted with fish eye eliminator in the paint ( some folks just refuse to quit using that crap )
P.S. Rog, I always reccomend Rapid Prep to those clowns that add the fish eye eliminator
Chris, you say it was all Mac tac, different colors involved? If what you used on the text on the deck wasn't used anywhere else, you've got a bad roll on your hand.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Thanks George, We are trying hard to get Prep into the "bodyshops" this year. Maybe that will make a diff, problem being "getting people to change old habits".
Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
posted
Thanks for the advice. The vinyl isn't the "dry apply only" stuff. I used the same colors (from the exact same roll) on other parts of the car, no problems. I always use the cheapest towels I can find (I had seen that thread before). They hadn't waxed it, as they wanted to and I said "NO!" I'm recutting the vinyl for it ad I figure I'll try rapid prep. Guess this will be one of those things that makes you scratch your head and wonder, as the vinyl stuck everywhere else and on part of the deck, just not all of it.
------------------ Chris King Paper Works & Graphix Indiana, PA
Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Chris, try using prep sol, a wax and oil remover,sounds like you have wax on the surfaces.
quote:Originally posted by Dave Draper: Chris,
I don't know if this will help or not, but some vinyl is supposed to go on dry.
The local Sign-A-Rama didn't know that either and screwed up two major van letterings using application fluid. They had to do both vans over, and the customer came to me after they failed twice. They sure like to learn the hard way!
I put the graphics on dry with no problem.
You probably should prep with alcohol. Maybe they cleaned the car off with Windex or maybe they waxed it....who knows? Alcohol will bite through any film left from cleaners and help cut through the any wax.
Roger Bailey has some good products; they work. But sometimes it takes spit to do the job (in other words there are products available that will clean without leaving a film and are available locally).
posted
Dave, would you care to try(free) samples of Rapid Tac products ? Especially Rapid Prep,a wax and grease remover that is "non haz./ non flamable" And outperforms the old formulas hands down !!
Give me your address, we will send some to ya Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
posted
Two thumbs up for Rapid Prep! I was prepping some carved letters for gold leafing today. I applied the size and started to get fish-eyes (the big mouth bass type). I went back and wiped all of the letters down with Rapid Prep and WHAM!! (a little Emril lingo there), the oil size went down just as pretty as you please!
posted
ok..just a word of advice here....my primary buisness is automotive paint supply...i'm not affiliated with Roger other than to use his stuff...DO NOT USE COMMERCIAL WAX AND GREASE REMOVERS,PREP-SOL OR DENATURED ALCOHOL AS A FINAL PREP FOR SURFACES....if you choose to use it you will have have left a film on the surface that WILL cause you problems of some type down the line,and yeah yeah yeah i know.."I been using it for 20+ yrs blah blah blah"...SO STOP...its all garbage,yes even the brands i sell......use the rapid prep...i was skeptical at first also but after trying it on stuff for myself,it works....if you choose not to believe me,check into the $$$millions worldwide *** has paid out for de-lamination problems caused by their recomended use of wax and grease remover....oh,did i say that? must have been an $88,000 mistake on our part.....gee the things you read... ....EDITED..yes...no mood for another lawsuit by corporate know it alls right now... ------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
[This message has been edited by Gavin Chachere (edited May 07, 2001).]
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
also..Roger's on the money about the Sikkens/silicone thing...just a cute little trick to force you to buy their complete system b/c of "incompatibility" probs...just one of many
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Roger, One other great thing about Rapid Tac.....I use it to clean but also on plastic and fiberglass prior to pinstriping to remove not only "gunk" on the surface but that troublesome static....I hate static!!! Awesome stuff!!! Not so good in the coffee though...need to work on that!!!
Jim
JC Hetz Studio 513 W 3rd St Muscatine, IA 52761 563-263-2803 jhetzler@machlink.com
------------------ "We are the one that makes you look good!"
posted
Roger, Have you sent rapid tac and rapid prep to 3M for evaluation? It seems if they can recommend other non 3M products for prep ,such as Prep solv and pre kleano they they could (or would ) recommend yours.3M even states that petro based cleaners should be cleaned off with isopropol alcohol.As for the Rapid tac they strongly advise against it. I didnt know this but a customer was having a problem with some 3M graphics I supplied him and he called 3M tech support. They said DO NOT use Rapid Tac Period!.Any thoughts? Gary
------------------
Posts: 77 | From: oviedo,fl usa | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Gary, what I was saying to you before is "3M isn't makeing money from application fluid".
Yes we have had dialogue with more then 6 3M employees for over 10 years,we have been in 3 labs, been used in 3 states on 3M "test decks" and have been told by 3M officals on more then 1 ocasion" Rapid Tac Has no adverse affects"
Now, just to bring credibility to what I have told you, you can read a letter(more of a recomendation) from AVERY(FASSON div.) They tested Rapid Tac many years ago and forewarded the results (with their permision to re print and use as testimonial). Find at www.rapidtac.com under "who we are"
Now, why would AVERY do this if Rapid Tac was not good for your wet applications ? 3M has purchased some product from us for actual "clean-up" use in one of their production areas. Beleive me, this bothers me too, but I can also see 3M side of the coin.
Also,I have had some of our distributors tell me 3M techs. went to a customer (large scale customer)to solve application problems, part of their answer was to leave a sample of Rapid Tac application fluid !
Oh well, Roger
------------------ Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated Waikoloa, Hawaii
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