posted
I know that this has probably been posted before, I just don't feel like looking it up. I designed a logo for a guy here a while back. I walk into my local art supply guy, who also screens shirts, and there on the table is my design, 'cept thier rendition looks like sh*t! The lettering is changed, the graphics are changed, but, obviously it's still my design. It looks like the guy that I did the logo for, wants some t-shirts, so he had these guys do it.
Do I have any rights here? Any say in how this screen printer does "his" shirts?
I haven't mentioned this to the screen printer,yet, I'll wait for some advice 1st. Thanks!
------------------ Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works. "B0LT" on the chat room thing. 209 Oak Drive Sturgis SD 57785 sbarba2616@dtgnet.com 605-720-7667
Posts: 768 | From: Sturgis South Dakota | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Once you let go of a logo...yer out of the loop. Let go of it with paperwork and documentation and you get to stand up for yourself in court. The laws and rules may change state to state, in regard to your rights in each specific situation.
If you "give" someone a logo, they can reproduce it how they wish, unless you state (and enforce) otherwise. To win this game...you must charge for your time in designing it and producing it.
I empathize with you're finding it butchered. Maybe they figured if it was changed by 14%, it would be acceptable to steal it.
------------------ DrQuill - Mural Woman PEACE SIGNS logodesign2@icqmail.com Georgia, USA
I'd be anscious to see how they respond when you do bring it up with them.
[This message has been edited by Linda Silver Eagle (edited April 02, 2001).]
posted
Unless you stated in the original design that it remains your property until purchased. It is theirs to do with as they please, if you gave it to them. Once purchased it is their property, not your artwork but the design itself in what everform you sold it to them. That does not give them the right to request your vector files or anything you used to come up with what they bought. If they did not purchase it and you had the warning in your paperwork they owe you for whatever time and efforts you made, but don't hold your breath while you try to collect. Bill
------------------ Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud Third year Supporter of the Letterheads Website MailTo:twobeesusa@netscape.net
Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Good topic. I've been wathing this board for a while and the copyright thing is something we all could learn from.
Tell me if I'm right here....
1.I've heard about charging for the design time, I've also seen where some put a "total package" price on a logo. From what I've seen so far, sounds like some just charge for the design time and that covers it.
2. Looks like the time for the design and final cost of the logo may be different. (i.e. creating a logo and signing some type of contract to say they now own it)
Good topic.
Tony B
------------------ Tony Broussard
Best advise received: Don't take any wooden nickels......if you do...burn'em!
posted
Did he pay you to make him the logo? If so, common sense says it's his to do as he wants. Many people cling to the idea that they own the logo even if the customer paid them....unless the customer wants to pay more and own the rights. I don't exactly buy that theory. What the heck did the customer pay for the first time? In my opinion, you charge them once. Now they own it. It's your job to to get an appropriate amount of $$$. If you allow yourself to get screwed, you will. Never hand over those sketches unless you've got enough up front to cover any chances of them walkin off with it.
------------------ Bruce Evans
Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
yay! a topic i actually know something about. IF you created the logo for the client, and they paid for it, they pretty much get to use it how they want (unless you have a lot of paperwork they've signed that says otherwise). If the DIDN'T pay you for it (they said "no thanks", grabbed the sketch and took it across the street) then you still own the logo. What it really sounds like is that you need to remember to impress upon your clients that they ARE paying for a logo, and that if they want to get the best use of it, they should check with you when they want to use it so you can provide them with appropriate artwork (at a nominal cost, of course). Of course, if you include the logo "for free" as part of doing the job, then you're sunk before you start.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Yeah, I agree that once you give a design to a customer, they can do any horrible thing to it they want to.
Don't know if this really applies here, BUT, it's my understanding that ad agencies like the ones that do the logos for national ad campaigns for big outfits like Coke & all charge by the size of the market exposure their design will get. In other words, if a design is to be used in a church newsletter, you may get $2, but if the same design is to be used in magazines, TV, billboards, T- shirts, and all across the country, then you may get $2,000,000 for it. Are we in the wrong business, or what?
Yer Pal, Bill Krupinski www.artfirststudio.com Jefferson, WI Minutes from the Milwaukee Panel Jam, located in Waukesha...
------------------ wizitude
Posts: 95 | From: Jefferson, WI USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Being a graphic artist I come across this alot. I design a ton of logos. Believe it or not most of the clients I deal with (it suprises me too)ask if the design is theirs outright. I tell them that the cost might sound a little high for the logo sometimes but that they can do whatever they want with it. They can shop around for t-shirts, signage, whatever. I also tell them that I can sell them the logo a whole lot cheaper but whenever they need business cards, signage, t-shirts, bar equipment, whatever the logo is going on, I get a piece of the action 'cuz they have to go thru me to use "my" design. 100% percent of the time they just say "I'll just by it outright". When you talk to them about copyrights right of the bat, they kinda have an idea that if they do take your design somewhere else, they will probably be seeing you going after them in court so my customers know I'm serious about my art.
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Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You do have rights but here's the big question. What can you do about it? Do you want to hire a lawyer and take the thing to court? It's only a civil crime at best...not criminal. You have to prove that you were damaged and just how much. Then, even if you win...it's up to you to collect. Does that seem worth all the trouble and expense? Or, wouldn't it be much easier...in the future....not to make the same mistake again? Make your customer pay for sketches up front. Get your money for your time up front. Then, who cares what he does with the design because at least you got paid for your time and that beats the alternative. This is just a suggestion and an opinion so please consider it worth what you paid for it......
------------------ Louis A. Lazarus Milt's Sign Service, Inc. 20 So. Linden Ave. #5B 650-588-0490 fontking1a@aol.com
Posts: 560 | From: El Granada, CA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
i've worked for those ad agencies and design studios that create logos for corporate clients. a logo for a national, or international, brand STARTS out at about $20,000 (yes, twenty thousand). that's just the basic, starting out price. i've worked on maybe fifty of those projects - projects that involve from 5-20 people for 1-5 months. by the time you divide the number of people and the number of days, the cost of the logo is about the same - per hour - as what sign painters charge. its just a bigger market.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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michigan signguy
unregistered
posted
ok how about this ? I did some coffee mugs for a customer the mugs came back on the wrong mug type and an eye in the animals head and their logo doesnt have one. other than the eye every thing else is the same ! she didnt want that set of mugs so i had to eat them . and order her new ones, we are talking about 500.00 smakers of eating. I told her i was going to sell them to other stores in the area. and she told me i couldnt because it was their trade mark. true or false ??????
posted
I guess everything is pretty much said about this, but I could suggest you reading the book: AIGA Professional Practices in Graphic Design. Good luck!
------------------ Marcano-Welch Signs Luquillo, Puerto Rico 787-889-6608
Posts: 2287 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Glen, you aren't allowed to sell those mugs to other people. its just like making up a bunch of mugs that say "Coca-Cola" or something and trying to sell them. the rights to use the logo belong to the company that owns the logo. (unless you designed the logo and they didn't pay you for it, but in that case they still own the "name" of their business so you're still screwed). now, if its just a picture, no name, then you might be able to sell the mugs (but why would you want to). what you might do is donate the unused mugs to Goodwill and take the tax deduction for the RETAIIL value of the mugs.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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