After reviewing different posts, I have a quick question. Normally, when a customer wants a sign done, I will order a whole roll of vinyl, usually 10 yds., cut the job, then hope to sell the same color to someone else. It struck me to just use white vinyl and paint it to make different colors. It seems it would take costs down as paint is inexpensive compared to vinyl. Not to mention easier to get. Instead of using a vinyl color chart to give to customers, I could use a paint color chart.

I'm still trying to learn about paints, so can anyone tell me what paints would work best on vinyl? Krylon, 1Shot, and Deka paints are all readily available in my area. And while on the subject, will these same paints accept vinyl on top of them (i.e. paint a background and letter with vinyl over it)? Of course, for an overcoat, I think I'll try Pelucid, Pierre has me sold on that stuff.

Thanks for your help in my beginning phases of trying paint. Man, I wish I wasn't goofing off in high school art class - I might have learned something!

Randy
Graphic Details

Don't get too star struck yet, you'll get responses from the rif raff like me as well,

you are right in the fact that paint is cheaper than vinyl, but vinyl is also cheaper than labor, and you don't have to waste any time for drying.

If you have to buy a whole roll just for one job for one customer I always charge for the whole roll. You will find a use for it in the future and if not what the hell it's paid for.

After a while you will end up with a good stocking selection and then this won't be a problem.

My experiences with paint on vinyl have been successes and failures. I have been using Chromatic ticote as a primer before paint lately. I don't care if you use 3m vinyl scuff it then paint with one shot you will be taking a chance every time that the paint will come off when you take off the transfer tape.

Ticote seems to hold the paint with no problem.

But then there is the Labor thing, Why would you want to learn about all these techniques, through pitfalls learn more, for the same job I'm assuming is priced out for vinyl? If I'm going to paint anything I alway get more for the job, because of all the years of learning from the school of hard knocks.

It doesn't seem like the right way to go in my opinion.

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

Vinyl will stick to painted vinyl, just be sure it has had time to dry very good before applying.

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Larry

Elliott Design
McLemoresville, Tn.

Hit a few Letterhead meets, and suck it all up like a sponge, Have fun and don't stress out too much ( ya right )

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

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PKing is
Pat King of
King Sign Design in
McCalla,Alabama
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

If you have time on your side, you can order small amounts of vinyl from Gregory (http://www.gregory1.com). They have a 1 yard minimum but it beats layin out $35/$40 for a $20 job... but you have to wait for it to get to you.

You can also develop a good relationship with other sign shops in your area. YES! Become friends with the "enemy"! You can use this letterhead website to search for shops in your area that may be up to helping you out. I've developed a good relationship with a couple shops near me and we trade materials freely.. couple feet of silver there.. some chrome here.. "Hey, I got a rush job in but my materials arent in yet. Can I borrow a roll of yellow and I'll return it when my delivery gets here in a day or two?"

It's saved my butt a few times, and my wallet.

I used to paint vinyls just to get a quickie job done like that, but by the time you run to three stores to get the paint you need (cause two are always out of the color you need) then paint, clear, cut, weed, tape, then worry about the tape pullin the paint off, it's not worth it.
I've never had a failure like that though.

This whole site is a tremendous resource, not only for getting timely answers but also for finding suppliers of certain products and finding other shops to sub-contract work to.

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Mike Pipes
Digital Illusion Custom Graphics
Lake Havasu City, AZ
http://www.stickerpimp.com

Something I would do is look at the jobs you have done in the past. And as you look at them, ask yourself what have been the most common colors. For myself, it has been Tomato Red, Vivid Blue, Black, and White. I buy these colors in 50 yard rolls. I know I will use them up within a defined period of time. I also know that buying them in 50 yard rolls saves me about 20% (give or take). Other colors such as the metallics or other specialty colors, I charge the customer for the entire roll and I let the customer know it up front. Occasionally, the customer wants what's left of the roll after the job is complete. I give it to them. It saves me valuable storage space and I don't have to pay any inventory tax later on. If the customer doesn't take the rest of the roll, then its just additional profit for me should another job come up needing that particular color.

As for painting vinyl, thats OK to a point. Labor in my shop is the most expensive thing I have. Based on experience, I have to make a determination as to what is the best thing to do...buy a roll of vinyl or paint a color on an existing roll. There are going to be pro's and con's to both. If you paint the vinyl, you are going to have to use the more expensive cast vinyl. The cheaper calendared vinyl does not react well with paint. Also, are you set up properly to be able to paint vinyl quickly and efficiently after it has been cut? What about dust? Drying? What if the paint peels of with the transfer tape? What about paint fading?

The only way to answer these questions is to take a close look at your shop and do some tests and experiments for yourself.

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Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Welcome to the Bullboard. You are really kind of fooling yourself by thinking of painting all your vinyl. You need to carry at least a small inventory of the common colors and buy just what you need of the odd ball stuff. How far wrong can you go by stocking 10 yards each of red and blue vinyl.

As for paint, you'll find Krylon about the best bet for painting vinyl, or one of the acrylic based lettering/airbrush enamels. If you use 1-Shot on vinyl, you'll need to use some kind of primer such as TieCote. Watch what primer you use, as some of them are not for outdoor use.

ALSO!.... don't let anyone totally scare you away from paint. It is a rare job that I don't do at least some hand lettering along with my computer cut vinyl.

Good luck in your new venture.

As for your paint idea we have used Krylon ("super frogs favorite") But I like Centari Automotive better (no hardener) the color selection is infinite, including metallics and metal flaked, not to mention candies and neon colors and matching auto colors is a lead pipe cinch.Spray it on (of course) and it will be ready in about an hour (altho we usually let it set overnite (less problems, like shrinkage) I never had a failure with this method and it doesn't affect the 5 year rate of premium vinyl. Now don't ask me about Intermediate vinyl ( I NEVER USE IT unless it goes on a banner or on interior signs)

"Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"