posted March 17, 2001 06:49 PM
They are NOT sign people. The Graphic Artist is NOT a sign person. The letter styles that the "Graphic Artist" has choosen are what HE has on his machine ONLY. There are THOUSANDS of letter styles(so many,that they have FREE downloads) They don't choose a "Jack Willis","Tramp","Dan Antonelli" or others because they ARE NOT sign people! Geez,when are we going to STOP!!!! letting these Non-Sign people run our business?? When ever asked for a perticular letter style I don't have.I simply tell them I don't have it,and will give them something close and or BETTER for thier signs. With this honest approach,they seem to understand and are glad I am looking out for thier best interest.If they are soooo intent with thier request.I charge them extra!!! If more sign people would use the time that it takes to "find" that one type style(Weather at font locations or asking on this BB)to practice thier hand lettering skills,OR thier business skills of dealing honestly with customers.I belive you can get payed what you are worth and be viewed in a better light as a professional.Rather than the cut throat,do anything,let yourself be ordered around by anyone person that others seem to take us for. I have already put an end to all my grief when it comes to dealing with these sort of people. These same kind of customers are in YOUR town too(just under a different name) I sometimes wonder if that is not what is really happening here on this BB with all the squabbling. I am trying to figuire out why all the worry and general downess has creeped into this wonderful town of Letterville.So I can possibly help rather than run away. How do you see it?
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted March 17, 2001 08:39 PM
Pat...Did you have a bad day?
The squabbling on the BB is a cyclical thing..must have to do with the phases of the moon or something. (or maybe yer right and it is if someone isn't busy and doesn't have anything else to do but start up a controversial post?)
I deal with customers in a business-like manner..not an "artistic" manner. They are paying and I am receiving...THAT is business. And generally, except for mailboxes and birthday banners, the people I deal with are in business themselves.
If they present me with a "font" or letterstyle that I don't have (and they HAVE to have it used)..I digitize it from a scan. That's what I get paid to do. That's what I am good at.
I treat my way of earning a living as a business.
When I need to call in a plumber or an electrician to do some repairs I don't hand them my 1/2" copper 45 degree street elbows and tell them to make them work instead of the 90 degree regular elbows that are needed, or tell them that I want them to use the #14 guage wire that I have on hand will work just fine for wiring the 220 volt airconditioner.
Being a person in the sign business is more about being a person in business than being a person who makes signs.
Well it is if ya want to earn a decent living and retire with some money behind you.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted March 18, 2001 04:10 AM
well...ducky....your havin a bad day....heheheheheh...but i tend to agree with ya.....everybodys a signmaker....and i really get tired of hearin people tell me their a GRAPHIC ARTIST.....then my next remark is...."in what medium"? and the inevitable answer is "computer"...most have print shop or print house or print it.... and know little of corel, illistrator, freehand, canvas etc etc.....then i ask do you draw or paint....answer is nope dont need to, computer does it for me....well i end conversation and go about my life....i am by far one of the least talented with a brush(from what ive seen at meets) but i can draw and paint and make things look fairly decent......and iam alway tryin to do it better this time then i did it yesterday.......went in an equipment dealers shop the other day...had some small door stickers for them....waitin for the guy that ordered them i got to yakin with one of the mechanics....well he tells me he want to buy one of them plotters, but damn their expensive he says....and i wana play around with makin signs....i just looked up in the air, held my tounge....and said i was thinkin of doin tractor mechanic work for free, just to learn how.....shoulda seen the look on his face....
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Its time for a vacation, to a nice couple of small home town letterhead meets! Hope you make can make the trip up this way.
The issues and points in your post are well taken. When a sitiuation like that presents itself here, we ask every question we can to understand the need of the customer.
Questions like these: Do you really need to use this font? Are you willing to pay the extra expense to have this digitized ? Can we substitute this font? Can we correct some weaknesses in the layout?
Every customer reacts differently to these questions. Some just don't want to admit their home made art work is bad. Others are willing to upgrade, some get offended, others don't want to spend the money, and the ones I like say: "Do what you think is best, you're the pro! That's why I came here."
There just isn't enough of those good customers anymore!
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Be Sure to Check Out My Next Article On "Sign Shop Photography" in the March Issue of Sign Builder Illustrated! 309-828-7110 drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted March 18, 2001 09:48 AM
Good points everyone. Dave G.YES it is only business,and should be treated as such,which I find pretty easy. Dave D.YES I will be at Troys.Not for the vacation as much as the friendship. Joey M.WHAT? I gotta spell it right too?(thats extra) Hope you guys don't get me wrong here.I am NOT in a bad mood! Just checking the general attitude to see if I am working smart. After all I do Have a KillerKart. Anyone elses input?
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted March 18, 2001 10:59 AM
I know what you mean about the fonts, sometimes they can be a real pain. As far as the customers and their talents? go, I quit putting everything in a black/white situation and added a gray area in between. I found giving a little before taking a hard line stance makes all the difference in the world. From your post it sounds like you do the similar thing. The font matter is no big deal til you couple it with vinyl and a plotter. Then it's another story. Customer provided artwork has a font you don't have and the job is getting painted? Thats an easy one. Do it in vinyl and you might spend all day looking for something you may never use again. Here's where negotiating skills come into play. I had one last week, using one of those wonderful "grunge" type fonts. I didn't bother to try to look. I drew it out, made a pattern and cut it by hand, much quicker than searching all day..............besides, this one was impossible to screw up
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted March 18, 2001 01:07 PM
I must be in a different business here. I have never had a "font crisis". If a client has a peculiar or difficult font and can't live without it, I either buy the lettering from an outsource supplier like Graphitek, or reproduce it by hand. But since most of the work I do is my own design, I don't have those situations often (perhaps once a year.) It's much more fun having it the other way - designing and using letter forms that are generated by pencil on paper, and letting some other poor bastard try to figure out how to turn them into sign lettering without wetting a brush (which is another reason why I rarely have designs stolen). Duckie has an excellent point about not having the customer run your business; as professionals, we have a responsibility to know more about appropriate and effective sign design than they do. I wouldn't go to an auto mechanic who doesn't know any more about cars than I do. I'm in business to solve my customer's problem - how best to convey the image of his or her business to the public - not just to take instructions from someone who is less qualified than I am in solving that problem.
BTW, I didn't read any sort of "bad mood" in Pat's post, though I suppose that it could be interpreted that way.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted March 18, 2001 01:30 PM
How ironic that this post appeared yesterday and then yesterday aftenoon I got handed this "design" that a lady wants done up as a sign for her new business.
After I asked her nicely what it was supposed to actually say, she had to agree that it was just a wee bit difficult to figure out.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted March 18, 2001 03:59 PM
Me Too Dave, HEHEHE all caps script on a race car trailer. needless to say I redesigned it and gave them something I could live with. Bill
------------------ Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud Third year Supporter of the Letterheads Website MailTo:twobeesusa@netscape.net
Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted March 19, 2001 06:43 AM
Vivaldi and Papyrus, Joe. Both on the Corel CD.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted March 19, 2001 09:14 AM
Here's one of mine from last week. Top is an "Ad Agency Logo" - bottom's mine. These were for simple coroplast directional signs.
Another sign company actually used the top logo for a 4'x8' for the developer.
------------------ Pat Neve, Jr. Sign Man, Inc. 4580 N. US 1 Melbourne, FL 32935 321-259-1703 signman@signmaninc.com Capt. Sign Letterville Constituent constituent: "One of the individual entities contributing to a whole"
[This message has been edited by Nevman (edited March 19, 2001).]
Posts: 2284 | From: Melbourne, FL, USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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