posted April 03, 2000 09:31 PM
Hey all, we have a customer who does the maintenance for a huge factory here in Phoenix. We are always making him vinyl paint stencils and are looking for a different way to do it. He paints a rectangle on the concrete, then lays down a vinyl stencil we make (letters weeded) paints over vinyl with a roller, and then removes the vinyl. Leaving the painted lettering. They say "no smoking, safety glasses required, do not park, etc. Usually 4'-6' wide. Sometimes he needs up to 10 of each one, and we would like to make one that could be reused many times . Make sence?? Even though we use the cheapest vinyl we can find for these, and make pretty good money doing it, we would like any suggestions on how to make these reusable. Thanks for any suggestions. Brad
posted April 03, 2000 09:51 PM
I would try with a .03 styrene and suggest two set of each graphic. You can use one and let dry the other one. That way the job is clean and the stencils are reusable. What do you think?
posted April 03, 2000 10:29 PM
Brad, Sounds like you're trying to find a way to lose a good repeat customer.
But if you're determined to do it, maybe some cut out letters of lexan, styrene, pvc, aluminum or such would work for him. Your client could lay down the letters to make up whatever message was needed, mask off a rectangle around the letters, and spray over it to create a reverse panel. If the letters were very thin, out of something like .024 aluminum, he might be able to use a roller. Some double stick carpet tape on the backs would keep them in place while painting if needed. About two of each consanent and three or four of each vovel should permit making up just about any message without running out of letters.
That would mean a lot more effort on the clients part to clean and store the letters, but would make them self sufficient. Good luck
posted April 03, 2000 10:42 PM
Well, in the old days we used "Oil Board". It's a thin cardboard treated just for making stencils, still available (from sign supply houses?) but you'll probably have to hand cut it.
------------------ "If it isn't fun, why do it?" Signmike@aol.com
I think Elaine is on the right track. I've made quite a few stencils out of 3mm sheet PVC. They've been everything from the wheelchair dude that gets stenciled in the handicap parking zones to stencils for stacks of lumber. The PVC is extremely easy to cut with a router. I have a little 1/8" router made by "Roto-Zip" that really works great for this stuff.
Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
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Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted April 04, 2000 08:37 AM
Brad, I am going to give you a weird idea here and going to explain my thoughts with a short story......A few years ago, frisket films (handcut small stencils) were not to be found in my corner of the globe so I had to improvise. My job was to hand cut a stencil for airbrushing a graphic design on a motorcycle tank. (one colored zig zag man) After a lot of pondering a mastic problems because of so many little intricate areas, I decided to try to use wet paper. After a little experimenting I chose lightweight brown kraft paper. I cut the stencil dry. I then layed it out over the area and sprayed it with a water bottle. After a couple of minutes at the most, I was able to conform the paper even around the rounds of the tank with a little stetching. I dryed back the tank with a dry cloth, a waited and blowed it dry with an air supply. (not to much pressure) Now the paper still pretty wet and the paintable area dry. I sprayed the design with an airbrush, being carefull not to blow off the wet stuck down paper. It worked perfectly and even repelled the enamel back from the wet edge (microscopicly) so that I didn't even have a rough edge, so I didn't even have to pull the stencil immediately. Ok, for a first trial: Plotter paper, plotted, cut design with a blade, lay it out on cement, use something like a fine spraying weed sprayer. (not too much water, just enough to soak the paper), let it set for a minute 2,3,4 whatever it takes to soften the paper. push out the wrinkles and bubbles, dry back the cement and wait a little bit. Then roll out your enamel and wait till it drys to pull the stencil. The enamel and water will not mix on the roller as they repell each other. Just try a test plot somewhere, it's easy. The worst problem is the wrinkles in the "growing" wet paper, so be prepared to handle that, but overall it is very fast and easy. Cheers, Bronzeo.
------------------ Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 bronzeo@prodigy.net http://www.imagemakerart.com
Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted April 04, 2000 09:26 AM
Jack's post above about using a wet stencil is ingenious. And it illustrates something that I have noticed before.
When you don't come up in the sign business in the traditional way, you are not as likely to be shackled to 'accepted' methods, I call them 'creeds', for doing things. I'll bet that many innovations in the sign business were the original result of experimenting by someone "who didn't know any better", or by someone who simply ignored the people that said "you can't do that." That's why sometimes I'm tempted to smile when I hear someone speak of the "right" paint or "wrong" paint, or right and wrong methods, colors, letter styles, etc. What's funny is I use these terms myself, knowing full well that some innocent newbie somewhere is going to creatively violate the 'rule' and discover some untrodden path that we will all benefit from in the end.
Am I going to far if I say there may be no absolute right or wrong in this craft, only advantages and disadvantages, and, ultimately, preferences?
The only rule I try to never break is one of the "Commandments" in the back of Bert Rosencrantz's book, On The Business of Signs: "Thou shalt not operate a non-profit business." If my business fails, then I'm on the sidelines. Yes, you can still wear the uniform even when you're on the bench. But it ain't as much fun if you ain't playing.
Rainy morning in Arkansas, Brad
Does not offset printing have something to do with using a wet stencil? Does anybody know this?
------------------ Brad Ferguson 4782 West Highway 22 Paris AR 72855 501-963-2642 signbrad@cswnet.com
Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted April 04, 2000 12:28 PM
Brad, I make stencils all the time..for the apple growers in this area.They label their produce boxes.Cut the stencil on styrene leaving a margin around graphic of about6 inches.Then cut a piece of plywood4-5 inches larger than stencil.Cut a hole in the plywood with measurements 2 inches smaller than stencil.Center stencil around hole...looking at reverse side..staple to plwwood.This gives you a frame similar to those used for screenprinting.Art supply stores sell stencil brushes and stencil inks so you can supply the customer a nice package.. I have even made multi colored setups ..one stencil for each color. The styrene cleans up nicely...not much will stick to it..
posted April 04, 2000 12:48 PM
I've made stencils also and have come to the conclusion that it's much easier to order them wholesale. Try NewStripe, 1-800-624-6706. Made of poly material, 5 year warrantee. Very excellent product.
------------------ Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modz@traverse.com
Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted April 04, 2000 03:23 PM
This is an unproven and untested idea...but if you're receptive to a bit of experimentation, you might try this.
Take a standard aluminum window screen as your basic frame. Cut the stencil from callendared vinyl as you normally would. Now cut a reverse version of the same text. Weed and pre-mask the right-reading text, and apply it centred on the window screen. Weed and premask the reverse version, turn the window screen over, register the reverse version so that it matches exactly with the previously adhered yinyl, and adhere to the underside of the screen.
You should now have a screen with a masked legend centred in it. This can now be placed wherever desired, and the open areas can be painted using a spray can. The porous screen should allow enough paint to pass through the open areas and imprint the area below. You could probably paint 6 to 10 imprints before washing up the stencil would be required.
In effect, you are building the same type of stencil used in silk screen printing, but using a much coarser mesh...and a metal one at that. This method won't give you the crisp sharp edges like the direct stencils that you've been using, but this type would be reuseable and recleanable. Your customer may find this type of image acceptable.
Just an idea, hope it helps.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
posted April 04, 2000 07:05 PM
Hey great ideas, from all of you. I will have to try a couple of your suggestions. I am sure my customer would apreciate being able to reuse these things. We do enough other work for them that i could do without cutting all that damn vinyl. Thanks again for your replies. Brad
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