posted
In a recent post, we once again bumped heads on the issue of advertising products on this BullBoard. I've handled this issue badly and I apoligize to all. People are at each others throats and scared to post in fear of being chastised.
We've followed this post and listened to many of you via e-mail, as well as the phone. We think we have a solution to the problem that should satisfy everyone and get us back on the right track.
There is now a new forum just for the folks that supply us with goods and/or services. It's called Supplier's SoapBox. Here's how we hope it will work.
All interested suppliers are invited to post the latest news on their products and/or services here at no charge. In addition, we welcome them to answer your specific questions about their products and their use.
Suppliers will all be required to register as Forum users and have a signature file in place that clearly indicates their company, nane and a valid e-mail address. Instructions on how to do this are already posted at the new forum in our welcome message.
So why are we doing this? Won't this destroy any chance we have of attracting paying advertisers? Has Steve finally gone over the deep end?
To answer these questions, we have to return to our roots and re-examine why we started this website in the first place. Our dream was an online version of a Letterhead Meet. A virtual community of people that choose to call themselves Letterheads, Pinheads or any other Head that may popup. Nobody, especially us, ever dreamed it would become as big as it has.
On the downside, that growth has created some real financial challenges. This website now is a fulltime job for at least 2 people! More if we could afford it.
To pay the bills and make a living, we sell advertising and promote $50 a year "memberships." We've never been comfortable with the membership, donation or "help out Steve & Barb" descriptions of what that $50 represents. We finally have a possible solution to that, but we'll present that to all of you in another post later this week.
From Day 1, we have had rules about blatant advertising on The BullBoard. We saw what was happening on other "signmaker" BBs. The vast majority of posts were suppliers fighting amongst themselves. Our resolve was to do all we could to prevent that from happening here.
The real problem is determining just what blatant advertising really is. Over the years, we have discovered that all signmakers are not who they say they are. While we cannot blame anyone for trying to promote their products on the BullBoard, we are committed to keeping the focus of this website on those people that make signs, stripe, gild, airbrush...etc. The new BullBoard and registration has elimimated most of these problems.
Unfortunately, the result of our policy on advertising has resulted in some misunderstandings, and even hard feelings by some. Others are unsure about what is considered advertising and what isn't. In an open forum such as this, we cannot possibly talk shop without certain products being mentioned. We know that too.
As the website administrators, we have to shoulder the blame for most of this unecessary fear ourselves. Truth is, we have not clearly set out the guidelines. Let's see if we can fix that.
Anyone that is a paid representative or receives compensation in any form from a manufacturer or distributor has certainly got a vested interest if not a real conflict of interest. We feel direct relatives should be included in this group as well. We all have a duty to do all we can to promote family first. We're no different.
Now that we have proposed this definition, we realize that this may effect some of our most valued posters. That's one reason this new forum has been started. Those of you who do not have a vested interest in a product as defined above have no reason to worry about breaking the rules. All we ask is that you wear your Letterhead hat while doing so. The creation of this new forum also means the suppliers can now talk to us directly, eliminating any conflict of interest questions.
So what do you think? Is this fair? We want to remain true to our dreams for this website and get rid of this notion that we are anti-supplier.
Your comments and suggestions are more than welcome.
posted
I'm all for it Steve!after all, my money spends ANYWHERE,just as soon it be here.IF I am given enough information on ANYTHING I will be able to make an intellegent decission and isn't that what letterheads is all about sharing information! NOW if you could just make it easyer to locate said suppliers,without having to know what state,city,name for us who are say looking for BRUSHES and don't really care where they come from,or how long it takes to get them. GO FOR IT GUY I only see good out of this
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hi Steve. I think that an Advertiser's Forum is a great idea that's worth trying. The thing about advertising, is that the story told, is ALWAYS told from the advertiser's point of view, and is often carefully crafted by "spin doctors" whose sole purpose is to portray the advertiser and/or their product in a positive light. You may find that many " advertisers " will be somewhat reluctant to utilize a forum such as this, simply because they can be held accountable for product defects, inferior customer service, and other negative issues that they'd prefer to have PR departments handle.My point is that advertising is a flow of information that basically travels ONE WAY Only...from them to us. The emergence of the web, and forums such as this, may herald a more healthy two-way flow of information.
Customer complaints and objections are things that must be addressed and overcome, if any company has serious intentions of staying in business and prospering. Unfortunately, all too often, some companies are reluctant to embrace this aspect of their corporate responsibility. Instead, they prefer to release product information as they have in the past...as a one way flow.
The challenge will be to get these advertisers to view this as a unique opportunity for some actual dialogue with their customers and end-users. That's a lot different from folks testing FREE SAMPLES, or Beta-Testers. In this type of forum, they are very apt to get the Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. It may well be that only the most courageous of advertisers will dare to venture into such a venue...mostly because they've always had it THEIR WAY and may wish to continue the status Quo.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.com
posted
I think it will be great to finally hear the voices from the suppliers! Tell us what's new or upcoming guys! Don't be shy, we wana hear.
One suggestion I have to suppliers, I'd sure like to see in your signature file, that you're a current advertiser for this site. My biz will certainly go to you folks first. Or perhaps there's a default setting for the supporters that could be activated to show us this info when that particular supplier posts?
posted
Steve, Having been around this board since the early days, I've seen this board make some great strides. My hat is off to you and barb for taking it this far and making it what it is. It must be a great stress to balance this dilema between paying the bills and keeping this site what it is. I read that post from rod and all the posts below it. I see both sides of the issue but I stopped reading after awhile, I was getting mixed feelings also about posting freely and praising produts I use also. I also give you credit for admitting when you feel you were wrong. Anyway, I will be the first to admit, I did not send in my contribution this year, just because I procrastinated. Being busy I just kept putting it off. You see I subscribe to sign craft every year, It does cost money to attend a letterhead meet. So I would not be objecting to an annual member ship fee to enter the BB. Sometimes it is easier to pay a bill, like the news paper. If you don't pay, you don't get. I hope whatever you have planned works. This is the only site I attend reguarly and am willing keep it that way. As a matter of fact I geuss it is time to face my procrastination and monday I'll send you my 50.00.
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[This message has been edited by Bob Rochon (edited September 19, 1999).]
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Steve I think this is a great idea and I too apologize to you and all who found my posts to be wrong, rude , or obnoxious. I look forward to spending time here everyday and think this whole thing will make this a better site and make us closer as a community . Dave
------------------ Dave Axton, owner of Signtek Graphics in Port Byron NY. Specializing in motorsports graphics and design. "I'm so messy, I have paint in places paint should never get to!"
Posts: 88 | From: Port Byron NY | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Great idea, Steve! As real sign shop that uses the letterhead site as a source for knowledge and information, as well as being a supplier, I'm often torn and reluctant to do very much posting on the site. I don't like tooting my own horn, because, inevitably, it will be to my "spin."
If people take a second to check and see if the suppliers forum has a new post, they can not only find out about new products, but they can freely grill the supplier and find out all they can on a new product. And if the supplier supports the site, seems to me that letterheads will be more likely to buy the product.
thanx!
------------------ Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry Rt 2 Box 238 Watts OK 74964 fontry@tcac.net
Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Brand Newbie here Just joined yesterday and have been reading posts at random. Stumbled on to the "frog" post.It was definately a learning experience! So glad to see that Donna's suggestion was listened to and that the problems descibed there are being dealt with so quickly. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about the debate, being so new, but am just glad to see how everything is handled here. Nice to meet everyone! See you soon
------------------ You name it ....I do it! SandySeasArt Duncan BC sandee@pacificcoast.net
[This message has been edited by SandySeas (edited September 19, 1999).]
posted
Comments are looking good, but we want to hear from many more of you. We've already changed the name once. They'll no doubt be further changes before we finally have the final version.
PKing...The Supplier Database is not as difficult to use as you think. The real problem is the instructions. They are confusing. We'll work on that.
Great post Ken! I agree with everything you say. There has never been a forum like this before. How do you talk back to a printed ad or television? Any critism about a product or service will never be heard. Ever seen an advertiser's claims questioned in a magazine?
I can understand the fear advertisers on the Internet feel. Some are still hiding their heads in the sand tryinf to convince themselves this is all just a fad. Meanwhile savy thinking companies are setting up on line shopping. The day is soon coming when we will be able to purchase whatever we need online at discounted prices. I can still remember a crowd of us looking at a Gerber 4A back in the early 80's and laughing at the claims this machine would have a serious impact on our business.
posted
A forum for suppliers will benefit everyone.
It may take some guts for a supplier to get up on such a soapbox, knowing that someone in the audience could be drawing a bead on him. But I believe that Rapid Tac Roger's presence on this board, for example, has earned him a good measure of respect, maybe even from people that don't use his stuff. And his willingness to experiment with other spray bottles was very impressive. (Even if he was going to do it anyway, he will always get my little bit of business for having perfect timing )
posted
Steve: This is an excellent move to deal with a problem, a problem that has taken some of the joy away from being a regular visitor or contributor to this site.
Many have made the observation that the work they do, the painting, striping, lettering, gilding etc. is what they love. Yet who of us can deny that there is a business that has to be run. We do after all want to be here next year!! You have a vision of seeing this forum as an online version of a Letterheads meet, and that is great, but business rears its ugly head. Bills, Bills, Bills
Now at last a forum that addresses this in a positive win-win situation. Many advertisers may indeed be impressed with the attention that will come their way with an announcement about their new products. You are very likely to gain new advertisers this way. Everyone likes to try it out first, eh! Any many do use and love new products and are only to happy to share them with us. It is good that they can make their views known without being chastised.
Keep up the good work, and it will return to you twofold.
------------------ Harry Pinkse Sign Matters Mount Forest,Ont. "Because YOUR Sign Matters"
Posts: 57 | From: Mount Forest, Ont. | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Just a quick update. Barb e-mailed almost 900 suppliers this morning informing them about this new forum. Please make sure your favorite suppliers know about it as well!
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