posted
Just did a banner the other day, banner was a poly banner and I lettered it with red one shot. I lettered it on rainy day and it took forever to dry, I sometimes have trouble with red not drying as quick as some other colors plus I needed to get it out of the shop that day so of course it wouldn't dry until it was late in the evening so I delivered it the next day. My customer loved it and then ordered another one, which I was going to deliver today. They called this morning and told me that the paint had run due to it raining again. Thought no way since I know it was dry and I had used this type of banner material with one shot many times before, so I went right up to get it and take a look at it. It hadn't run but the paint had flaked off. I've taken tape and pressed it down on the painted letters and it comes off, not in big pieces but in little specks all over the place.
Has anyone had this problem? Do you think I can salvage this banner or should I just get another banner and redo it. It's only going to be up for a month. Could I just clean it up, get as much of the loose paint off then repaint it or am I just wasting my time?
------------------ Kevin Carlson Carlson Art & Sign Madison, IN
Posts: 37 | From: Madison, IN 47250 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I use lacquer thinner instead of mineral spirits. It bites into the banner and bonds almost instantly. Also, the paint will dry quicker.
------------------ There is nothing new under the sun. What will be has already been and has been will be again. Daniel R. Perez Daniez Dzines Fresno, CA daniez2001@yahoo.com
Posts: 299 | From: Fresno, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Are you sure you used a Enamel receiptive Banner.... Maroon and reds are slow driers in the colour chart... A few drops of lacquer or hardner 4007 or almost any dryer agent.
If your still unsure of the banner material then Scruff,Buff,and Apply top coating before lettering......
As for your project then I would say bring it back and cure some with lamps or heat gun and the next day touch up or reletter...
Hope this help! Raven/2001
Also if the item is only for a month and never to be reused then give them a discount for the trouble.
------------------ Raven/2000 Airbrushed by Raven Lower sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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The problem was from the polymers "migrating" from the vinyl...you've seen this in action on a hot day when a haze gathers on a car windshield above the Plastic dash board.Those polymers are what keeps paint from adhering to the vinyl (or keeps it from drying) mixing Lacquer thinner with it will make it worse...If you want to letter a banner that will last for years,and not fade, flake or oxydize., use inyl screen ink thinned with a touch of retarder and thinned to lettering consistancy with lacquer thinner.When you clean your brushes DO NOT USE LACQUER THINNER / USE VINYL REDUCER to remove the paint then clean with mineral spirits and apply lard oil.OH did I mewntion the fumes will make you brain dead in pretty short order (make sure you have plenty of ventilation) If you don't like this option be sure to order your banners with "enamel receptive coating". I have a banner over the door of my shop,lettered with vinyl, that is over 6 years old now and looks as good as the day I put it up there.(southern exposure too)
"Werks fer me, it'll werk fer you"
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
posted
The banner material is a pre-hemmed with D-rings and is enamel receptive. I've used this type of banner for years and this is the first time that the paint has done this. I appreciate all the help and the hardener idea is a good one, nothing ventured nothing gained.
------------------ Kevin Carlson Carlson Art & Sign Madison, IN
[This message has been edited by Kevin Carlson (edited February 19, 2001).]
Posts: 37 | From: Madison, IN 47250 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
apperently the place you got the banner from or the banner mfg. didnt coat out this one completly with the enamel receptive coating...it happens....i did some banners tha were all E.R.coated....except the bottom 4-5 inches ...the paint i put there would not dry....had to wash off and use vinyl....and i was paintin with black....or you could be usin an old can of paint that has been "skinned" many times....most of the drying agent in that container will come to the top of the paint and react with the oxygen and make the paint "skin"...and the last time you clean off the skin ther may not be any drying agent left in that part of the paint.....
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I use rubbing acohol and then I might mist glass plus on it to take out any static electricity and always make sure it is good and dry. I've done banners this way countless times before never, ever had this happen before but I suspect that Joe's theory with the paint skinning over, probably too many times, and effecting the drying time but perhaps the binders in the paint might have failed to hold the paint to the banner material since they had evaporized or were in the skin. I've since got a brand new shiny can of red one shot and used it on the repaint and the new banner.
------------------ Kevin Carlson Carlson Art & Sign Madison, IN
[This message has been edited by Kevin Carlson (edited February 20, 2001).]
Posts: 37 | From: Madison, IN 47250 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Here's a little trick that will work for you in the future. Go to your local HOME DEPOT store and pickup a gallon of "JASCO" cement sealer. It's white in consistency and dries clear. Basically, you roll out your banner on a table or the floor if it's too big and roll this stuff on after you have wiped the banner down with some alcohol. It dries fast (water based and is the same stuff as the old ENAMEL COAT from back in the 80's ) It is a gesso formula that a lot of us have been using for years around here. Keep rolling out the foam and it will dry nice and smooth and ready for all the paint you want to put on it. Thas'it,...................CrazyJack
------------------ Jack Wills Studio Design Works 6255 Brookside Circle Rocklin, CA 95677 writer@quiknet.com
Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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We do a lotta banners and a lotta shade tents. Most of these we do in vinyl screen inks thinned with lacquor thinners. 1. A pound of ink thinned down goes 10 times further than paint. 2. The lacquor thinners eats into the surface of the banner and remains fully flexible and durable and will never flake off. 3. It drys FAST!
We can do one side of a tent in the morning on the shed floor, flip it over after lunch and deliver it next morning rolled up! Yes we do talcum powder it. Real cheap source of powder being a pottery kiln ... I got 5lbs for $5 years ago
You have to double coat as the first coat comes out dull due to the chemical reaction ... next coat restores the gloss .. but as I said it dries real quick ... just watch the brush strokes as you tend to dissolve the first coat as you go.
------------------ Bushie aka Jon Butterworth Jonsigns old signwriters never retire ... they just fade into the background! Toowoomba,Queensland Australia.
Posts: 4014 | From: Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I agree with Crazy Jack on this one, I would lay down a primer layer for the enamel to adhere. Most Banners these days are not paint freindly at all, unless you order it that way.
I use Ticote from Chromatic, it is water based and dries in 30 minutes, It is also clear.
Good Luck.
------------------ Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA bob@creativesignworks.com
"Some people's kids"
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Deka with Water based brushes from Mack. Dries fast. Won't come off.
------------------ Mike Meyer SignPainter 575 1st Street Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956 (507) 843-5951 EMail-mikemeyer@sleepyeyetel.net http://www.markfair.com/mikemeyer check out this great web site..www.grainbelt.com
Posts: 3617 | From: Mazeppa, Mn usa | Registered: Feb 1999
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