posted
OKAY! After having spent a little over a month on this BB, I have been "rode hard and put up wet" with all the info I have tried to absorb!
so the question is:
If you were to teach a class in Letterhead 101, what 5 books, 3 clipart discs, and 3 Font discs would you require your students to have for the most succesful climb to journeyman letterhead status?
It was suggested by Chris Roche that I aquire seems to work well for him!!!!)
"Mike Stevens Mastering Layout" "Sign Graphics and other neat stuff"
Ready to learn!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drmwvr
------------------ Robert Beverly Dreamweaver Studios Arlington, Texas
posted
Good Post! Seeing that my son is taking an interest, I have thought about what would be a good primer in software etc. In books, magazines: Signcraft, Mike Stevens Mastering Layout, Letterhead Website, Letterhead magazines Software: Coreldraw or Adobe Illustrator, any major Sign software(lite version will do), Vector art clipart, any font merchant here for hand done sign fonts, Adobe Photoshop or Corel photopaint Mike Jackson's clipart And I await other's ideas....
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com
Posts: 2786 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
You have already made a good start by coming to this website.E.Matthews would also be a good book to study.When learning the "BASICS" The power of keen observation is your best asset.Not only for learning how and why letters a shaped,But also their relationship next to each other for proper spacing.This ability to be able to "see" is also most valuable for adjustment(or kerning)via the computer generated letters. Rather than teach people how to Draw.It is more important to teach them how to see,or look as it were.Most good designers are very good observers.When an artist looks at a Tree,he sees more than just a Tree!He observes the shape of the leaves,the texture of the bark,how the light hits it etc.AND most of all REMEMBERS.So when asked to draw a tree,he already knows how.Because he has SEEN one. This is the same with Layout,Color Contrast,Letter Style etc.with signs.The More you study(see)Signs.The More you make (paint)signs.the More you discuss signs.The More the likely you are to want to Improve on what you know now. The BAD NEWS is that if you cannot already See it in your minds eye BEFORE you start.You will wind up with letters on a substrate.Although these kind of signs will sell,there is no real feeling of accomplishment conected with it. I guess what I am trying to say is:Train your mind FIRST.Then and only then will tha concept be able to travel all the way down your arm to your fingertips.Where it doesn't really matter if you are holding a brush,or you are typing on a keyboard.You will be able to create a Graphic visualization that the REST of the world can view,that came directly from your own mind! Research,research,practice,practice. Please remember this:The machine can only to what the human tells it to do! Hope this helps
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I just ran across your post and your argument is excellent and I thank you...
so with that let me make this response.
I consider myself to be extremely apt at "seeing" the dimensional appreciation of anything having had the opportunity to study under a master woodcarver(a real one from Bavaria) where his emphasis was that of recreating what the mind sees! I have been sculpting for 26 years and love it! I also can't draw it as easily as I can to sculpt it!
Having said that, I have found that the colors, balance of design and layout create a dimension that eludes me and I fear my lack of direction via literature or sign examples has led me to believe that given those "tools", I think it would help remove the mental block that I currently have. Just a note, if you did not see it, but I put together a design for our company truck and if you refer to that posting, I missed some very fundamental rules, as those you have mentioned such as kerning..etc. I had no idea I was so far off from a good design, so I felt before I go that far again, I need to primer myself in the schooling of what is needed to address those elements that separate a good design from a poor one!
Having said that, how might you respond?
Drmwvr
------------------ Robert Beverly Dreamweaver Studios Arlington, Texas
Pat is on the money with what he said. When I started out lettering(painting) it wasn't until I went to work for a sign company that I really started learning the differance between good and bad as far as layout, colors, and such. The thing that two very good sign PAINTERS told me was, to find three painters work you thought was good, study it, and combine the look of all three and you should come up with a style of your own that works.
The problem these days is it's hard to find and distinguish three different styles with so much vinyl being done. Unfortunatly alot of is cookie cutter style.
The advice I would add is study the stuff you see in the trade mags that appeal to you, copy some of it but add some of your own things to it.(a good mix of stuff you like) Soon you will develop your own style.
Not by any means am I going to pick your truck design apart, becuse I for one will tell you I still on occasion do letter something that when I'm done I either change it(if it's bad enough) or try real hard not to do that mistake again. But what I will say is #1 your design has to be legible. I try to imagine I don't know what it says, if I can't read it easily, I change it.
.............good luck...if you have the will...there is a way
------------------ Jeff's Lettering Jeff & Dara Spradling Belvidere, Il.
"No you are not my only customer...do you really think I live on $150 a year"
Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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The very best graphic tools available are quite simply a sketchpad and a pencil.These are the foundation of any design...bad or good. If you use the approach of roughly sketching out what you have in mind, it becomes much easier to "see" spatial relationships...balance of positive & negative spaces...rhythms...contrast etc. You can then adjust and refine the elements until you have a firm picture on paper, and in your mind's eye of what you wish to accomplish, and where you want to go.
Then, it's merely a matter of duplicating your sketch, in the proportions you've established. The medium of your choice may be hand painting, or computer generated, but the basic foundation is laid using that pencil and piece of paper.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
posted
I took alot of graphic design classes and read alot of books on the subject and that helped train me in the use of letterforms in general. Critiquing all the examples in the real world really help too.
My one true talent is drawing and I still can't sketch a sign though! To each his own- maybe- you'll do better sculpting sign layouts! ;-> I find that laying all the type on the screen and mousing around is my best tool. But then I don't do the "fine art" commercial signs you see in the sign mags done by the truly gifted.
We provide what our market wants, reasonable vinyl and sandblasted signs with CorelDraw, a cut program for the plotter, Key fonts pro 3003 Cd, nova and broderbund clipart cd collections for about a million images and a laser engraver for sandblast masks and small signs. That's the bread and butter. All the other techniques I'm learning in my spare time.
The business of the sign business is just as important (more important?) than craftsmanship so save some time to learn that.
A bad layout will make you wince, but a good layout with no profit will sap your spirit.
------------------ Rick Cooper Sierra Sign & Award Lake Tahoe, USA www.engrave.pctrader.com $$$Letterheads Website Supporter$$$
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Posts: 135 | From: Incline Village, NV, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I see that you have already received lots of good advice here, but there is a few things I would like to add. I have Corel and Signlab. Both are good programs but Corel would be a little easier to start off with (and cheaper). I use both David Butler and Mike Jackson CD's for clipart. They are amazing CD's, BUT, the trick is NOT to rely on them for every sign you do. Clipart is ment for accessories or "finishing". If you rely on clipart for every sign, your design skills will not improve and your signs will start to all look the same. The fact that you have been doing sculpture is wonderful and I'm sure that your talent for signs is there as well....you just need hands on experience and give your self lots of time. I'm a graphic designer and been designing for 10 years and doing signs for 6 years. I'm still learning techniques and "good design layout". I'm also an illustrator, but like Rick, I can't draw a sign! How pathetic is that? I find that I also work much better on the computer for layout and type. Every person is different and you will need to "find" the thing that works best for you. Take what ever courses you can and go to the letterhead meets! You will learn more than your brain can handle at a meet. They also motivate you and make you drool to learn more..... hehe
Good Luck Robert
------------------ Brenda Beaupit Classic Graphics Kemptville, Ont CANADA
Posts: 346 | From: Stittsville, ON | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I agree with the Duck, Ken and Rick. I dont see much in the computer related info that seems to be as good as the books we read before the wired age. Many of us also studied type and letter form extensively, reading, taking classes, learning from others for many years. Try to find some older books on lettering. Mortimer Leach was a terrific lettering artist who wrote a lot of good books. Get some old books that tell how letters are formed and what distinguishes one style from another. You can learn tons from reading and studying but you must have the "eye" to see it.
With layout remember the white spaces. They are as important as the elements you put in them.
seems to work well for him!!!!)
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