""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I like it a lot, always had a soft spot for ribbons, but I just want to inquire if you see the same confusion at the ampersand where a lot seems to come together. The rest of the logo is very airy and easy to read but where the ampersand and the diamond is it is very busy compared to the rest.
Had you played with tucking the ampersand under the word Vital up to the S in signs? thus eliminating the diamond.
It is hard to design a logo for ourselves I am just getting started with a new one for myself too and its like where do I start lol
Bob
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You're on a good path here Rick. My cold medicine hasn't kicked in yet so I'm seeing things a little funky right now, please keep that in mind.
The ampersand overlapping the S & graphics is bugging me. Don't know why, it just is. The diamond is drawing my attention. I think because the lettering is dark with a highlight in that lighter color, but there is a lot of the lighter color in the diamond. I really like the subtle 82.
I see where Bob was going with tucking the ampersand up under the word Vital, but that might make it seem like you're saying Vital & Signs. Be careful of that. We know what it means, but Joe Schmoe down the street might get confused.
I'll look at this again when the cold medicine kicks in.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Looks great, Rick. Solid layout and the paintbrush is a nice touch.
I'll third the amperstand issues mentioned above. It does tend to draw away from the lettering. Maybe you could somehow work it into the diamond?
Also, a slightly bolder style the word "graphics" might help a bit. I'm assuming you'll be using it on your vehicles and just thought it would add visibilty from a distance.
My 2 cents... Rapid
(edited fer spellin'...TWICE!!! sheesh )
[ December 22, 2003, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I realize there are a few "new" trends in design work today ...but, why the DOTS between the letters in "graphics".... It's not because you couldn't find a more appropriate letterstyle is it? Do you write with dots between letters?
posted
Rick, copy and colours are mostly personal, but the interaction between shapes is an important, albeit subtle point, IE: Bauhaus.
The banner appears to be a rather weak wash against the copy. It tapers (?) to the right and ends in a rather confusing overlay. The taper itself seems to be left unresolved behind the copy.
If the brush was intended to apparently have ended the wash illustration, it should have ended with the tip finishing one line.
The diamond can be interpreted as either concave or convex, but is not apparent to be one or the other. It does interfere with the copy and adds a weight mass that shouldn't be there.
Lets see another approach. Since its open to the Letterhead's critique I'd like to see it through to a finished product.
IMHO, of course.....
heh............
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Rick, are you actually a paint shop, or vinyl film only? Do you have a website with samples of your work?
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I think what's bothering everyone about that ampersand is that it doesn't relate visually to the word GRAPHICS. Have you taken a look at the Mike Stevens book recently? He talks a lot about "compulsive graphic relativity", which is a chewy concept regarding how one part of a design relates (or not) to other parts. The diamond might be a better place for a "since 1982" message, with the ampersand in line with, and in the same style, as the word graphics. Just a respectful suggestion; I think you're on the right track.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm looking forward to your website, Rick. I've been to every one posted here on the BB. I do hope you've taken my comments with the understanding that you asked twice for comments.
There is always a danger of bruised egos when a piece of artwork is thrown before the critical snarling dogs of the art world. Many here actually ARE artists in addition to being signmakers. When I was young and still in art school I had plenty of my submissions looked upon with derision and tossed aside as garbage by professors who demanded and finally received the best their students could produce.
You pick youself up, brush off your piece of art and reconstruct it, hopefully keeping in mind the comments of your peers. That's what shows the mettle of your abilities.
Keep on truckin' bro................
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
The day that I stop learning is the day Lat and Rosemary will cremate me, reload me into 7.5 Swiss cartridges and fire me at prespecified targets.
heh...........
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Heh............ I hadn't thought about that.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Kind of a long story, that ampersand has been with us for many years. It has been part of our logo through all the evolutions. That and the font for VITAL SIGNS has been consistant and familiar. Thanks again!
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
The old signpainter in me is bothered by the letter spacing in Vital Signs. There is that big white space between the V and the i and then the i and the t are run together. The black outline/shadow runs stuff together even more. The banner is sweeping and the copy is on a straight line. The ampersand is the only thing that passes the squint test.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
After reading every post I feel that putting a color in the ribbon would be a big help to make the letters stand out. The other suggestion would be to open up the spacing between the letters. I feel they are too tight and closing up. The correct spacing is just as important.
Just a few tweeks and you are there, good luck.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
George, I haven't heard anyone say that for a long time. Us'n old timers always use a squint test. I wonder how many of the whippersnappers know what that is.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I've been squinting all my life. And my logo over its lifetime has gone through at least six incarnations and todays is completely different from my original one I started with thirty years ago.
Change is good and often necessary especially when it comes to a logo. Just because you may have had it forever doesnt mean it cant be improved upon.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
I'd suggest approaching this differently. It should work without all the bells and whistles, then they get added to enhance something that already works. I'd remove the black outline on the name and diamond first. I'd change the shade color to the pale grey and have it from the lower left so it follows the letters. At that point you could re space the letters in your name, so they could be read by a silhouette and not dependant on color. When you get it working in a simpler manner, then you can start adding to it step by step and recognize what works and what doesn't. Happy holiday to you.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Pierre - you're making me anxious my man. "Us'n old timer's always use the squint test..."??? Does 42 qualify for the "old timer's club"? Hehehe.
I learned that in college, and and I still use it on occassion if I'm concerned about spacing.
The 'ol squint test is one free tool no one should be without.
Regarding the hesitancy to change your logo Rick:
Prudential life insurance has changed it's logo about 15 or so times since they began business. Somewhere around here I have a printout of all their logos since day 1. I keep it on hand to convince people that there is nothing wrong with evolving their logo along the way...that doesn't mean that you can't keep the same feel and general theme. Just kick it up a notch.
Of course, you always want to keep in mind it's producability in terms of your print support materials; letterheads, bus cards, etc. Although it's not as important now that you can get full color high res cards for cheap these days.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Yo....... Toddles.......... If you have permanent, impossible to remove paint stains under your nails, if all of your workshirt armpits have unwashable paint tracks from squeezing your illustarting brushes and pulling them out to clean them, if you have a permanent little welt on the tip of your tongue from rolling and prewetting your illustrating brushes and pulling them to a point, if the insides of your glasses lenses have a permanent film of some kind that you can't see but can feel, if you have to squint just to squint.......... yep...... you're probably an old timer no matter how old you are.
heh.................
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I hate to critisise, but your old logo and the incarnation doesn't do anything for me. I just don't want to look at it. Others were being nice by saying you are in for a redesign. It is an absolutly horrible design.
Maybe I should be a critic on American Idol.
I am telling it as I see it.
My logo went through many incarnations until I was happy with it, keep working on it!
Cheers & Merry Christmas
[ December 24, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Robert Thomas ]
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Hey Rick, I noticed you started your thread saying you just released your new logo, so I also can see the hesitancy to change it already. I searched for a post that helped me evolve my logo several steps in one thread when I made the changes suggested, got more input, made more changes repeatedly untill the change was unbelievable. I had many good suggestions, but still did all the reworks myself & the result was something I still feel a lot of pride in, even though it was lightyears ahead of the original thanks to the help of our neighbors here.
I couldn't find the thread, but I think I still have a sequence of about 5 incarnations which if I find, I will post here.
I would like to suggest that you stay happy with your final design, but play with some of the above suggestions anyway... for fun. Post the changes, recieve feedback, & give it another whirl... if you don't get something you like better... no loss,. if you do, thats great too!
posted
I like this schtuff. Simplicity and strength. Cool. Now.......... I see a perspective error in numbers 1, 3 & 4. Doug corrected it after that and, well............ anyone else see it??
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
The end of the brush sticking out of the g.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Hey Doug, I remember those logos - wow, it really did evolve didn't it. By the 4th revision it was working SO much better. Interesting how the concept stayed intact all the way through, but those color and spacing adjustments took it from raw to refined to eye popping.
Rick, I hope you're taking this good natured. I also think your layout could be improved, for some of the same reasons stated. My focus is on getting the ribbon to flow with the lettering a little better and see if some of the other issues might fall into place. If it were mine, I'd approach it something like this.
I think the colors and fonts and brush would all work if the ribbon didn't fight the flow. If you care to massage it some more, I'm sure everybody posting would follow through with honest evaluations of your progress in a helpful vein. If nothing else, you've already made a huge improvement over your former logo.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Cool, Joe. That's one I could live with. No....... That's one with which I could live. Rick, all of this was truly well intentioned. Its tough to throw out a personal design before a bunch of layout artists. It will most certainly result in critiques.Some will tip-toe, others will stroke you, some will simply be dead, cold honest. Joe and Doug have given you some visual direction and that probably helps more than anything anyone could say. If you do go a different direction, please post it.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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The high-tech method of the George's squint test: print the design 8.5 x 11 black on white line art. Tape it to a wall about ten foot away and walk around it for awhile.
Mike Stevens' books contain some excellent evaluating and troubleshooting methods.
After you're satisfied with the new adjustments, print in grey scale. Finally in color.
Emitted light from your computer screen and reflected light in the real world cause differences in the perception of your design. Adjustments that look right on your computer may not be as pleasing in the real world.
Good luck.
-------------------- Jack Leyden Jack's Signage 1330 "H" East St. Andrew Place Santa Ana,CA 92705 Posts: 22 | From: Santa Ana,CA | Registered: Nov 2001
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Rick, I read somewhere a saying I like: set yourself some boundaries... then break them. Perhaps you can apply that to your logo. I like ribbons, but your one at the top just doesn't fit properly, IMHO. All other comments are very appropriate. Best wishes
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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