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Hey, all. I'm going to do my first smalt job tomorrow. Nothing big...JUST 20 FEET LONG by FOUR FEET HIGH! Esoteric told me to mix 50/50 the Smith Cream with the One Shot Enamel. I've read about adding boiled Linseed oil, glues, etc. etc. Anybody have a sure-fire, tried and true recipe they'd want to share? Or would you reccommend just going forward with the simple 50/50 recipe?
Thanks, Mark
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Mark I have used the 50/50 method religously with great results, I'd just add to do small sections at a time. Dont get too far ahead of yourself
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Mark, Thats a BIG job to start with. I would recommend you do a small (1 or 2 sf sample) for your wall first. The "wet" must be thick and very slow drying. Have fun John Arnott
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Mark, you are going to run into trouble around the letters because thats where you slow down. Cutting in. The original reason for using smalts was to cover up a rough background panel. This is a good time to add oil.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Mark, I just did a small smalts last week. I followed the info in Gold Leaf Techniques book, p. 92-94, they use(as I did) Holdfast background smalts glue "Honey"(from the label on the can.) Got it from Canadian Signcrafters Supply.
2/3 glue...1/3 oneshot, thin with mineral spirits.
The Smith's Cream...i used that doing some blending work on another prt of the same panel... it's a real slower downer, do others use it for smalts?? you said esoteric had the info on that?
Anyway, to avoid the ragged look on smaller stuff(your gold lettering) outline the work with same colour as smalts or another happy colour. the outline doesn't have to be smooth on the outside, then when that's dry, you can cut in to the outline, leaving as much of the outline as you like.
4' x 20', man, that's alotta smalts!!!
good luck, John Lennig / SignRider
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Good post! I'd like to see more on smaltzing included in this post. For example, what sort of inventions are you using to apply your smaltz. Any photos?
Speaking of photos. If you have an interesting project like Mark's on the go, why not grab your camera? Record all the various steps, add some text via notepad and email us the whole deal. We'll see it gets made into a step by step.
[ December 10, 2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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Hey Mark, you're going to smalts the entire background right, then stud mount your cutout letters after it's dry? That's stupidly simple - and will look GREAT. The whole cutting-in-around-the-letters routine is what makes smalts difficult, because the glue is so thick and you have to hurry. But for your project, piece of cake. Just try to get the glue spread on fairly even (and thick), and sprinkle every couple feet as you go.
I don't do much smalts, but I found a shaker can unnecessary, preferring to simply pour it right on about a good quarter to half inch thick. Then for no particular reason I pat it in with the palm of my hand. (which is totally unnecessary and pointless but it makes me feel good). Basically, if your glue is completely buried in smalts while it's still wet, it's gonna cover and stick. Next day, pour off the excess and screw on those letters. Collect yer money and logon to gloat about your wonderfullness.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We just did a smalts job, but not nearly that size. The 50/50 formula is what I have always used and had no problems yet. It is necessary to put it on thick and work a small area at a time, which has already been suggested.
I would also suggest that you do a small sample first, just to get the feel of the process. And then you will have a sample to sell other work.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Mark, I have used "Holdfast Background Glue" with good success & purchased it from Quill, Hair & Ferrule. It's clear & I usually mix it with oneshot if I need coverage over a different colored background. One thing you can do to large smaltz background is break up the area into verticle panels. I have put strips of 1/2" tape vertically every 12" or so. This will help keep you contained into one area reducing the chance of the glue mixture drying before you get the smaltz on, & it looks nice too. When it is finished, the panels will give the appearance of a curtained background of sorts, or try a different pattern.
Good Luck, Jeff
[ December 11, 2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Olde Lang Signs ]
-------------------- Jeffrey P. Lang Olde Lang Signs Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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I am glad to see the you chose to smalt the sign. I have smalted 4x8 panels without drying problems before. I mask off any areas I don't want smalted and apply the smalt glue with a roller. Just pour on a glob and push it around to an even thickness, then peel your mask and smalt away. I have only used the Holdfast Background Smalt Glue mixed with 1-shot before and it has always worked well. Take some photos!!!
posted
This is the mixture I used on a 4ft x 8ft sign that lasted 14 years - and the smalt background still looked good - it was the unsmalted areas that chalked and gave out:
Mix 40% Lettering Enamel and 60% Dana Colors Titanium White Oil Color #272.5 until of snotty consistency. Add Japan lampblack until it is a dark shade. Thin as necessary with varnish.
So - is Dana T. White Oil #272.5 still avail.?? For varnish use Chromatic clear overcoat - more durable than Quick Rubbing. Roll down (press) smalts with a foam roller (clean-obviously). I don't think you'll be ready to attach the letters and deliver in 24 hours tho'. With that much oil, better give it another day or two to dry. Apply the smalts base in about 4ft x 4ft sections.
posted
I'm with Joe on this one. I recently did my first smalts job on a 4X10 panel and spent lots of time pounding a zillion holes in a coffee can to make a sprinkler. That novelty wore out really fast, and I ended up sprinkling the smalts on by hand. It was much faster and easier to see what you were doing. I also enjoyed patting mine down...makes you feel like you are helping it stick!
One tip someone gave me that was helpful was to paint on a section of glue, but don't apply the smalts to the very edge of the section. This allows you to paint the next section without smearing bits of smalts around, or having a definate line where each panel begins.
Have fun, it's just like making the colored rice pictures when we were kids!
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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MARK Question just what are going to use to put the smalts on the board? If you R thinking of O I will just pour it on, OOPS!! what you need is some funnel with an 1 or so opening so you can place the smalts in side the letters and around. You Might start looking at an automotive store. I use OLD Fashion OIL Bottles very light and easy to handel.GOOD LUCK try a small sample first with a couple of letters on it.
-------------------- Danny Bussell Tujunga, California
Bootleg on Chat
"Keep The Rubber Side Down" Posts: 213 | From: Tujunga, California | Registered: Mar 2003
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Wow! What a bunch of great replys. I thank you ALL from the bottom of my heart! Steve, I have begun photographing all the steps and will share the whole experience with everyone once it's installed. I'm really excited about this. I'll post the before and after shots I did in Photoshop now so we can all see how close I can get to the lay-out. (If I can remember how to post pix?)
Mark
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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When we still had white lead mixed with black oil color, we would get up on a step ladder and sprinkle the smaltz from a height that assured the grains would embed themselves.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I cut a piece of window screen to cover a coffee can full of smalts. Sifting through the screen allowed me better control than trying to sprinkle it directly from the can.
Oh, and don't put Smith's Cream in your coffee...
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I use the Smith's method and would not use any other at this point. Not to say they don't work, just that I like it as it is quite easy. As for smalt's, are you using black? Because if you are you can save some money by using black beauty which is used for sand blasting. It is black and comes in different sizes ( fine to corse). It is about $7.00 per 50lb bag. It is all I use and you can't tell the difference. You can buy it right up the road from you in Pittsfield. I can't remember the name of the place but I could meet you there some morning if you like. It is near Home Depot on route 9. Good luck and call me if you need any help. I'm not far from you.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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I've had several failures using Holfast Oil. They lasted two or three years and then started loosing smalt and getting thin areas. The blending cream and enamel seems to work better.
We'd size and gild the letters on a well painted board, outline the letters with a wide line, and cut in the smudge leaving the proper thickness of the outline. Apply the smudge thick as you can. A gallon can with holes punched always worked well. Set the can on a board and fill it with smalt and carry it over your panel and slide the board out and sprinkle the smalt in a circular pattern so it goes on evenly and you want it to be around a quarter inch thick. You don't want to move the panel to move the bottom layer at all. Let it sit for at least a day then pour the smalt onto a table covered with paper so you can get it into your bag for the next job. The weight of the smalt pushes the bottom stuff down and is important to get that thich velvety look.
I know some that have had sucess with fiberglass resin and coloring.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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