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I need to make 20 sign posts with signs to use as directional signage in the hallways of a university. These are to acknowledge the sponsors as well as directional information for a science show. The design I came up with has been approved, but they wish to try to cut costs in order to fit within the budget. I originally planned to use purchased glass replacement globes for the light globes (decorative purposes only), in order to cut costs I could probably go with a white kids ball - if I can find one or perhaps spray paint one. Does anyone have any other ideas - they should be 8" - 10" in diameter. The posts are made of 4" black PVC pipe (free from a tarp manufacturer - they are the cores the fabric comes wrapped on, the bases will be concrete poured into the clear plastic covers that come with deli meat trays. They make an attractively decorated base, that is heavy enough to be stable. I have a metal bender and was planning to make the simple scrolls, but found I can't get more than an 180 degree curve from my bender - can anyone tell me the easiest way to shape the scroll? I suspect that I should be able to make some kind of die that will work with my bender. I've had this thing for a couple of years and it is time I started to get some real use out of it. Any hints ideas or comments on this project will be greatly appreciated.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Instead of bending, use a metal plate, then weld your horizantal, and support peice to the plate, then either bolt the assembly or use stainless straps to attach to posts. The do make aluminum and plastic spheres, I don't havee the info at my home office, I'll try to remember to look it up later.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Hi Kelly. For the scroll brackets, I've seen something very similar that are sold in places like White Rose/Home Depot/ Builder's Box/ Home Hardware etc. They sell them as hangers for exterior hanging baskets of flowers or macrame hangers. It might be faster to get 20 from them, rather than spend the time trying to make them up yourself. You might have to invert them for your purposes, but check them out if you have a catalogue from one of those stores ( or any garden supply ). Also, the plastic balls. You might find from a Swimming pool supplier or marine type store. I seem to recall white floating plastic balls like that used to support ropes/ lane markers for rowing events. If you can find them, they'd be about the right size.
Hope this helps you out.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2686 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Kelly, I'm for the most part not a proffessional blacksmith, but I've got some experience. It is very common for a smithy to make a tool to do just one order, it's just part of the job. In this case a pro metal worker would make something very much like the scrolls you need, but weld the first one onto a 1/4" plate of steel, which would serve as a "jig" to do the others, quickly. (I'm assuming this metal is light enough to be bent without heat, as you mentioned your bender). But I'm also going to assume you don't have a welder, so come at it from other approaches. The next method would be with a scroll bending fork. It's a tool that resembles a stout tuning fork used by musicians. It gets inserted into the square hole on top of an anvil, which I'm going to assume you don't have, but no problemo, I have a nifty one I made out of a hunk of steel, that is held in a vice when I use it. IMPORTANT: the quintesential essence of blacksmith mentality is to get a job done with what's on hand, not always buying the super-duper version of the tool. We now return you to our regularly scheduled broadcast. My scroll bender is a piece of steel, probably 3/8" or 7/16" thick, by 2" wide, by 10" long. Inch and a half wide would be better. It has a 2" slit cut on one end, running lenghtwise, so that that end has two "prongs", each one of course being about an inch wide by 7/16" thick. You stand it up, vertical in the vise, and put one end of the steel you want to bend into the slot. Then you start pulling it around, bending it, till you get the desired shape. Now how, you ask, do you get a "slit" in a thick piece of metal, to make this bender? If you don't have cutting torches, then use a skill-rotary type saw, but take out the wood cutting blade, and put in a metal cutting blade. The safety housing around the blade needs to be made out of metal, as a plastic one will melt with all the sparks you're about to make. And we're talking SPARKS here, but it's OK, that's how the blade cuts. These blades are commonly available, less than $5 each. Now the last method I can think of would be to hammer these scrolls into shape. You'll need some bigger piece of steel that weighs a bunch, maybe part of an old car engine, a piece of RR rail, anything that can be used as an anvil, that won't move all over when you tap on it. Start by laying the strap for the scroll over the edge of the "anvil", hanging off just a little bit, say 3/8" (1cm).Strike the strap so that it bends over the corner, foming a small curve, it won't make a corner, unless you're over zealous, or lady muscle type . continue to feed the strap over the edge of the anvil forming the desired curve. A pro metal worker can make this look easy, but it's kinda tricky, requires concentration. At some point you'll need to flip it over, flat part of the scroll laying on the anvil, curve up in the air, and strike it from different angles as needed to keep the curve going.
It seems as though the best way might be to start the scroll on your bender, then finish it with one of these other methods.
Two things to remember: 1 there may already be some forked piece of steel around that will act as a bender. 2 watch the negative space inside the scroll as well as the scroll(positive) itself. I've seen great looking curves that went too close to other parts of the scroll.
I know this sounds like alot, but have fun, be creative.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think you might be able to find PLASTIC globes. I have a few here that were in the mobile home when it was purchased.
I know this sounds kinda cheesy, but if you have to cut corners, sometimes the trailer and RV companies have alternatives you might not think of normally.
Any port in a storm... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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No offence meant here Kelly, but I HATE this kind of thing!
You come up with the layouts, ideas, etc. They come back to you with a "budget adjustment". So now, to be the 'good supplier', you have to go and rack your brain and essentially 'experiment' to save them money. And, if things don't work out and the ball experiment idea fails (or worse, fails 6-8 months down the road), then YOU look bad---not them for giving you a tight budget.
I'm really against this sort of thing Kelly. I'd be looking for an actual engineered piece from a Flag supplier or Fencing supplier. You may lay out some $$$, and you may not make as much on the job, but think of it as INSURANCE. If these signs go in and you have a failure or problem, it's your name they associate with it. No one will remember that they hacked your budget---only that your work 'came apart'.
Sorry to be so pessimistic and skeptical on a Monday morning-----but I prefer to call myself a realist.... ....I've had a 're-do' or two over the years, and this one has got me thinking that way....
posted
Thanks for the replies. I'm going to give those scrolls a try today and see what I can knock out. Ted, no offense taken, normally I don't like cutting corners either, but this is a bunch of university students trying to work within a limited budget. I'm making enough to make the project worthwhile, but I won't be making as much as I would like. The signs are only up for a few days during their show, so one option I am thinking is to possibly give them a rebate after the show when the signs and posts are returned. That way there would be the possibility of them being rented another year. The sign faces are made from Dibond and vinyl so if I got them back right away I could remove the vinyl (or just make new faces)and they could be used for other things. I am going to give the RV dealers a try and see what they come up with.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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What about using a wood finial instead of the globe. On a 4" pipe, a round finial would look nice...you could glue the end of the pipe to the bottom of the square base of the finial. They are about $3-4 apiece in the box stores around these parts.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Well someone is in the Christmas spirit. I phoned a lighting place (out of the yellow pages) to see if they had any old discontinued stock that they could sell cheap. The owner said no, but if I was not going to do anything that would damage them he would lend them to me. I said I would be more than willing to rent them, but he said no, I could just have them for free. I guess that if I take him up on this maybe I'll make him a nice little 3-D mini sign (that could be replicated into a real sign if he loved it.) Stuff like this restores my faith in mankind.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
. continue to feed the strap over the edge of the anvil forming the desired curve. A pro metal worker can make this look easy, but it's kinda tricky, requires concentration. At some point you'll need to flip it over, flat part of the scroll laying on the anvil, curve up in the air, and strike it from different angles as needed to keep the curve going.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
....I've had a 're-do' or two over the years, and this one has got me thinking that way....![[Dunno]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
I am going to give the RV dealers a try and see what they come up with.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Applause]](graemlins/clap.gif)
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