posted
Hey, all. I have a sign to do for a bar in Manhattan. 39 inches tall by 270 inches long. Gold prismatic lettering on black background with simple gold border (also raised).
I was thinking of laminating 1" Sign Foam to 3/4" Extira, painting the whole thing black and mounting on the routed letters and border using gorilla glue. Of course it would need to done in 2 sections, so how would you handle the seam?
Any suggestions on the seam or any other aspect of the production are very welcome.
Oh, it will be mounted flush against the building above the bar's entrance.
Mark
PS: It needs to be done next week, so I won't be seeing any of you in AC at Sign World :-(
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Without seeing a layout it is dificult to suggest splicing technicques...but why not consider dropping it back to 240" (2 10' pieces /thus one joit only) and use "Dibond" set in relief (say 2") from the wall...it would give you the stability you need and the look of heft...plus it is light weight and very ridgid.
It would save a lot of time and trouble.
Since I'm on the outside looking in it is tough to suggest much more than this.
Hope it helps
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Not difficult. I'm not sure what "extira" is, but allow me to substitute MDO for the sake of aguement. Clean, true and wet the edges of your Precision Board, apply PB240 and clamp it. Cut the MDO into three pieces. One full 8' length and two pieces 87". Leave the backside of the Precision Board unpainted.... same with the MDO, rough side in. Wet the backside of the PB and the inside of the MDO with water. Apply the PB240 by crosshatching on both the PB and the MDO. Bond the 3 pieces starting with one 87", then the 8'er and finally the other 87" piece. This will put the 8' MDO directly over the center of the PB seam. Super strong. NOW........ about the support mechanism. A question first. Is there room between the building and the sign back for two thin "L" angle rails?? If not, elaborate on your intended mounting methodology. You answer......... then mine.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
The background is flat. No carving or sandblasting. I just figured Sign Foam so it has some thickness to it. (The client is doing the install) So, what would you suggest as a substitute substrate?
Also,Monte, I'm not sure I understand what you mean regarding the DieBond?? Thanks, all.
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
As far as mounting, I was going to add 2 lengths of Sign Clip mounting hardware top and bottom and give the client 2 matching lenghts. If you don't know what Sign Clips are, they are extruded aluminum French cleats. Very secure.
Since I won't be doing the install, do you think I should deliver the sign as one piece, or in two sections and let the installer try and get a good seam??
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
If possible, I would use .040 aluminum on a 1" aluminum square tube frame and make the sign in 3 parts like Pierre mentioned. This way you can butt joint the factory edges of the aluminum and the seam will almost disappear. Attach the letters using stud mounts bolted through the face. When on site, the installer can pop rivet the 3 panels together, finish attaching any letters or borders that fall on the seams and hang it with L brackets. Thats, just my 2¢.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Unless you just want to spend all that money and glue up time to make a flat sign, I would do this...
Make a 1" light square tubing frame the size of the sign and "skin" it with baked aluminum or Dibond. Cut your "skin" larger and break it over 90 degrees to cover the tubing. This will give a return or finished edge and add thickness to the sign and be strong and lightweight.
Use silicone and pop rivets or screws and attach the metal from the edges and you'll have a nice smooth face for painting and mounting letters.
Be sure and put a cross brace every two or three feet and one where the seam is in the middle. Apply silicone on those and the perimiter when you put the metal on. Silicone makes the sign quiet...won't rattle in the wind.
This method allows you to attach raised letters and elements from the back with screws.
Mount some angle brackets(hidden behind) on the wall and hang the sign on those.
We have a local blacksmith shop weld our frames and brackets and use the heat&air shop down the street for bending metal sheets.
posted
We've built a number of signs using raised individual letters this year, using aluminum tube framing and dibond for the background, then framing around the whole thing with cedar. I'm going to e-mail you the design; it produces a very substntial looking sign that doesn't weigh too much, and your installers will appreciate that.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I like the dibond on aluminum frame idea. I have made many pub signs using MDO with a hefty frame to give the illusion of a thicker sign. If you are going to all this, I think you should smalt the background!! It looks amazing to have a large smalted background with gilded letters..
posted
I'd love to do a smalted background. Problem is, I've never done it and I wouldn't know where to begin. Is it hard to do? Actually, is is hard to do WELL?
Mark
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
It's not hard to do at all..If I were stud mounting the letters to stand off the background, drill the holes first. Mask the area you want to smalt. There are many different mixes for smalt glue, I have never had a problem with using Holdfast(Honey) smalt glue. I add about 1/3 black 1-shot for colour and to make the glue dry a bit faster. Roll on the smalt glue about 1/3 the thickness of the smalt pieces and peel the mask. Let it sit for about 20-30 minutes. Get a coffee can and punch some holes in the bottom to make a big shaker. Fill with smalt and shake an even, thick coat over the sign. I then get a rubber brayer and a large paper and cover the smalt and roll it to push the smalt into the glue. I let it sit again for a few minutes. Roll out a large sheet of paper and flip the sign on edge, over the paper and give it a couple of whacks on the back to dislodge the loose smalt. You can reclaim your smalt from the paper you dumped it on. Leave the sign sit overnight on it's back to dry. Ron & Kristi should have all you need, including answers to your questions. Lettehead Sign Supply
posted
Well, the frame of 1-1/2" aluminum is done and in the shop. The Dibond goes on tomorrow. Then I'll mark the letters with a Stabilo. drill holes for later, then-thanks to Darryl-I AM going to smalt the background! Gild the letters (Carved from 1" 18lb SignFoam laminated to 1/2" MDO) build a Red Cedar Frame and ready to hang on the L brackets (3 of them, 4ft long each across the 20ft span...top & bottom) MAJOR THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME ON THIS ONE! Mark, Darryl, Cam, Monte, Checkers and ESPECIALLY Pierre! I will keep you all posted on the progress through the finished sign.
Mark
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
It's probably too late for this project, but thought I'd show it anyway.
This is a sample piece I made under Pete Payne's (Canadian Signcrafter Supply) instruction at his gold leaf workshop.
The background is painted matte black leaving an outline around the gold letters. I think the flat black looks really nice against the sparkle of the smalts and the gold leaf.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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