posted
There are so many varied points being discussed here, I don’t know where to begin. My response may be a bit long, but maybe a few interested people will read it:
Part I - A Quick History Review…Back in 1989 both Scanvec, Ltd and Amiable Technologies began developing software for sign making applications. Scanvec’s strength was it’s Scan-to-Vectorize algorithm (hence “Scanvec”) and Amiable started on the Mac platform where designers had not output options. Both companies developed strong products with an even stronger group of followers. The popular CASmate program was redeveloped into Inspire to meet the growing market demands beyond vector cutting. FlexiSIGN-PRO v5.9 was Amiables first product to address the merging markets of cutting and printing. Then came 1998 when the two companies merged; Inspire had weak acceptance and Flexi v6 was already on the drawing boards. Any corporation would have chosen to merge the two competing product lines into one, as did Scanvec Amiable. Incorporating the strong features of CASmate and Inspire, Flexi 6 was a complete re-work of the programming code to allow for the “Smart Objects” and other task-simplifying features Flexi has today. Unfortunately Flexi experienced “bug” problems that all new or re-worked programs experience. Ongoing software development is a constant necessity – to meet the demands of the changing markets and of course the changes in operating systems. Flexi 7.5 is the newly released version, meeting the demands for many, especially the Edge users. Scanvec Amiable will continue to develop software, as long as the sign market continues to suggest new features and applications, and as long as Microsoft and Apple continue to provide the world with new “better” operating systems.
Part II - $$$…Yes CASmate was expensive to buy complete, as was Flexi. Many engineers put in many hours to develop the software. Computers aren’t cheap either, but they should be considered the part of doing business. To quote someone “Sure, you can build a house with a tackhammer, but it's gonna be a drag.” My husband owns a roofing company and uses the expensive pneumatic air-nailers; not because he likes the color, because he knows the proper tools will let him nail more shingles faster…finish the house…get paid…and move on to the next job sooner. DeWalt is not trying to take advantage of roofers when they release a new gun with the new features my husband’s been hoping for. Regardless, it sure beats the tackhammer. FlexiSIGN is not perfect under every possible scenario, but it is definitely the most stable and most powerful product ever. Bug fixes, new drivers and new profiles are posted on our website as they become available. Updates, a combination of bug fixes and smaller new features, are releases within a version (7.5 from 7.0) are typically no-charge, with a flat free to cover shipping and handling. Upgrades incorporate significant product development, OS support and new devices and are charged for according to a matrix of product level and new features. Consider comparing your software to your vehicle maintenance: You regularly spend a small amount of money to keep your company vehicle in good running condition with lube and oil changes. You need your vehicle to get to work, delivery and install jobs. It’s hard to make a good business without a reliable vehicle. All manufacturers recommend major maintenance, usually at 30, 60 and 90,000 miles, where you typically spend several hundred dollars to maintain the reliability of your vehicle. Many people opt not to perform the major maintenance and then are overwhelmed by the cost of a major repair or replacement. Software is much the same…update as necessary and upgrade as available to keep your system running the best possible and also to avoid larger investments down the road.
Part III – The Company…Scanvec Amiable is not a large company by any means. Of course we would love to have unlimited Tech Support, development staff, as well as representatives to participate every discussion group, but it is fiscally (and physically) not possible. Staff of this magnitude would translate to higher costs, which no one wants.
Throughout your discussion here, several problems have been eluded to, but nothing specific. I would like the opportunity to address each problem specifically. Customer input is invaluable to Scanvec Amiable for our continued success.
Scanvec Amiable tries to invite input and comments through several methods: Customer Service Phone: 800.229.9068 Technical Support Phone: 800.229.9044 Website: www.ScanvecAmaible.com Web Support: e-support@ScanvecAmaible.com
And now I would also like to offer my contact information for all to use: Judy Heft – Product Marketing Manager JudyH@ScanvecAmaible.com 800.229.9066 x146
posted
Thanks, Judy, if you're still there. I honour your gracious knowledge of your company and industry.
I am a seasoned businessman with an engineering background. I am quite aware of the R&D expense and scenarios you bring to musty light-- and laboured gauzy architype. I could have easily rendered the same or similar explanations of the 'big picture' with the same corporate flair as was my wont when I supported Flexi... up to a few weeks ago.
I, myself, did in fact address many important issues, both specific and general, over the course of this post. And, true, some other peoples responses were vague, encompassing the frustrations of how Amiable does business.
Know one thing: I shall not pay one cent to upgrade my inherently flawed and expensive Flexi program. So let's not tit-for-tat. I paid for something and discovered, subsequently, that Amiable did not deliver.
The building-in of "new features" on the heels of much needed and long-awaited "fixes" is not what I asked for. I asked for a complete, working program that I purchased. Keep the new features and give me/us the fixes. When I/we want the new features to still-existing proggies, we can negotiate them...but for now, Flexi's a thing of the past unless you can give me good reason to stay with the rpoduct.
Of all I read of yours sounded more like excuses and justifications. I used, sold, promoted and supported (technically) your product and Amiable failed me. Now you want me to accept and assimilate the drawbacks and burdens of soft engineering and poor business practices? We are sign people: hard working, simple people, who merely ask that Amiable make good on that which we purchased as whole and complete working program(s); that is, those still in executive boardroom existence.
Sure we understand the progression of time and change in today's world. But $650 to upgrade from 6.5v3 to past 7.0. Nah, don't think so for what I've and others have seen thusfar.
Skim over our posts again in more depth. Be a listener more than a Charles Dickens, dramatizing the Christmas Carol of Corporate Dilemma. You and the upper echelons may learn something. We certainly have...
The Patriot.
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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“Sure, you can build a house with a tackhammer, but it's gonna be a drag."
Most designers I know use Adobe Illustrator, not a "tackhammer" program by any means. A few major sign companies I know use Corel, yet get the job done, with major success. Flexi-sign, and all these other programs are only tools, some have better feature than others, you still need a tackhammer to build a house, (unless you are going to pound the baseboard with a sledge...) along with the other tools.My complaint....... I think Flexi really screwed up when they got rid of Flexi-Cut, you took away a good entry level solution.
Another thing is upgrade cost, I have a job as a designer, at home I use Flexi to output, it kills me everytime there is an upgrade, so in my situuation I way over--bought, not Flexi's problem.
I think Flexi is a great production program, but for design? Well I do more than just signs, and Illustrator works very well, and I do very complicated ones with it.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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As I mentioned in my earlier post, I welcome the opportunity to address your specific problems and complaints directly, and make this "Charles Dickens" discussion into something productive for everyone. Please e-mail me directly with the specifics of your problems along with the version number of the software you are running and your operating system.
ONE QUESTION: Why arent you a distributor of Flexi anymore? Could this be the driving force behind you BITCHING about the product? I have seen this all too often from people.
MY OPINION: Right now my opinion is that your just passing sour grapes in an attempt to get even with someone for your loss of software sales. Realistically I dont think this is the place for you to be airing dirty laundry like that.
A SUGGESTION: You live in NJ and ScanvecAmiable is in Philadelphia. If you have a true honest beef with those people maybe you should go right up to their offices and sit down with somoene there. Perhaps maybe they would be willing to listen to you even after all your moaning, griping and bad mouthing.
AN IDEA: Maybe, just Maybe they might even fix the problems you say that they have. If your reasonable with them they might possibly even reward you for enlightening them about thier shortcomings in their program. I for one do have Flexi running in my computer, but I must be honest, I dont do enough SIGN work in a year to pay for the program nor the upgrades.
ANOTHER IDEA: If you think that any of the other sign making programs out there are so much better, I suggest you go out and buy one of each so you can see for yourself that they arent perfect by any means either.
SOMETHING TO CONSIDER: Just think, if there was a perfect program out there, dont you think that everyone else would be giving their software away for next to nothing to get their name into the hat? I doubt you will find a program that is perfectly suited to ALL your needs today and into the next 5 years. If you do find one, then you havent progressed to trying new and different methods. When you do find it, please be a nice person and let me know.
IMAGINE THIS: Each time you buy a new computer, why do you do it? Because you wanted something better. Each time you upgraded your operating system, did you go onto a bullboard and bitch out Bill Gates and the thousands of people that work for him. I doubt it. yes I know, we all have our things to say about Bill Gates, but we still give him our hard earned money. Why? because we want it to be better faster and make our lives easier. What a concept. If you really have problems with this software and you will with others. I suggest you go out and get an education in computer software development and reinvent the wheel so to speak.
THE DISCLAIMER: Not trying to pick a fight here or anything like that, I just see what I see, and right now in my mind you look the fool, not Scanvec/Amiable.
HAVE A NICE DAY
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Judy just called us. Guess what? She's a real live, friendy person that I believe is sincerely interested in her clients. We want to thank her for having the courage to jump into this "lion's den." Many actually prefer the hide your head in the sand approach.
We don't want to see this opportunity deteriate into a public debate. Judy has supplied her contact info. Use the phone and/or email to discuss the particulars of your issues and then report back to us.
As business owners, we've all had to deal with customer issues from time to time. In most cases, we are able to come to a satifactory agreement. Judy may not be able to solve all your concerns alone, but she's willing to listen and do what she can. I call that a good start.
In the meantime, we'll work on selling Scanvec Amiable on the benefits of setting up shop in Letterville.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
I appreciate your efforts to make peace in these matters, if that's what you intend over appeasemnet.
I e-mailed you twice today and the address addy bounced back each time. (That's OK, you're forgiven.) I already spoke with Amiable last week and their distributor (without mention) with whom I set up the third=party, limited re-sale agreement. No one then seemed willing to budge until the rockets' red glare shown gave proof to the nite. Thus, I'm not working the phones or visiting anyone's office in this regard.
Our grievances were stated herein the subject post, particularly, my modest request and the history of it's denial and weighty price tag.
I'm in your database. I've done my part, contact me if you like. I am not beyond reproach, willing to listen and, if agreeable-- make the clasp for peace.
Mr. Harris, I do appreciate and respect your comments, suggestions, general musings and sundry.
To answer some of your immediate questions-- I established a limited, third party reseller agreement with a distributor (who I wish not to bring into this with the mention of their name)for the purposes of offering Flexi with systems and plotters we set up for people interested in starting up a small sign business as an aside.
The opportunity at the time offered many pluses with networking new and established trades in the tri-state area. But that's besides the point.
My primary grievance is as a user.
I can readily see (and foresaw) how one could misconstrue the situation as you capitulate in your post. It's all a matter of perception and I do respect all you wrote. As Hemingway once said, in effect: to get to the meat of the matter one needs to cut away the fat. Disgruntled, etc. is all fat and not where I coming from. Take the extract of mine and others' comments and, whalaa, you have it. A few modest changes in Amiable's policies, more attentive customer relations, respect for existing users, et als, and Amiable would be in much better favour with their public.
Don't unfurl the white flag and wave it when the fallout's an inch from your nose. I offered a channel of raport with Amiable to address my specific problem(s). They were courteous and cooperatively uncooperative such that my spirit to carry on with them turned a sallow cheek and, yes, soured my taste for Flexi-wine. I'll have to go back and read in more depth what your saying, but I do get the gist of it and I can tell you are an intelligent man of good logic and pin point appraisal. But all as you put it is not as it seems.
There is legitimacy to much that was said by all. All the inner workings of Amiable, R&D drawbacks, etc. are not my/our problem. Most hardworking people who buy a car will keep taking it back until it's fixed. I did not purchase Flexi as a beta tester, but as user and promoter with faith that now lies in the purgatory of betrayals until my spitit is further directed up or down. Either way, I've made my confession like other's here and my conscience is clear and the path, well-lit.
Mr. Steve-- what can I say... you're a good guy, a peacemaker. Maybe you should man the ranks of Amiable corporate and maybe things will get done and the Ark, full again. Can I call you Noah from now on? You seem to genuinely "know-a-lot" and what it takes to bring matters full circle. Get Judy some garland and we'll sail over the rainbow as soon as the module and filters are fixed in my '57 Chevy.
Kind regards,
The Patriot
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
fran...dude...get over it...move on...i paid $895 for my g/a to omega upgrade and i'm gonna shell out another $365 for 2.0 two years later...oh well...it's the price to do business. you seem to do alot of soap box whining...first it's the price of hdu and now flexi sucks....with all the time you've spent on your "cry me a river" novels with this post & the other, you could have worked and paid for the friggen upgrade or bought different software. i would think any "seasoned businessman" could figure out price adjustments to absorb these costs.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I'll second what Pat said "I love Flexi!" I have a lot of different programs, but Flexi, once you learn it, has so many features you just don't find in one program.
ScanVec-Amiable is going through problems with organization & mangagement, and they've cut back on support staff, when they should have increased it.
But they have a fine product and if you do any inkjet or solvent printing, Flexi has a great RIP, that isn't a rip-off at all. No pun intended--just look at what other Rips cost.
Sorry some of you have had problems. I have had more problems and headaches with Gerber software than I have ever had with ScanVec-Amiable.
I am not crying over the $650 upgrade from 6.X to 7.0--I bought it for 2 stations --That's $1300. To me, it's a cost of doing business.
Stephen Bolin
[ December 02, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Bolin ]
-------------------- Stephen Bolin Signs By Tomorrow Holland, MI Posts: 78 | From: Holland, MI | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Thanks, sweet Karyn, and another sweep under the rug...everything manufacturers' hope and dream for in the pawn of their products. I'm over it, beieve me. But others asked for explanation and offered their own.
Usually I try to approach a subject, beef, or whine somewhat intelligently. I know a little about you and you've been helpful in the past.
Fortunately, I've remembered the good stuff, not just the whining. As I recall, you have it quite conveniently nice in your office/home/shop as some others here, so it's probably easier for you to "move on" than others. I, too, have it good and recall the days of struggle. But what about the little guy? The newcomer? Who's looking out for him? Informing him? I spoke. Others spoke. Much good came from this, but obviously some things like "eye candy" and idle talk with little conviction is more engaging than doing something good, setting standards for our vendors to ponder, etc., instead of biting the bullet all the time. HDU was a fair discussion. All points of views were considered. Some here need something more "engaging" to offer and read than tabloids and MAD magazine every day. Your interpretation of "seasoned" and mine are semantically different, but I still love you and respect your angle on matters just as I do everyone elses'. Shame it's not always a two-way street for the healthy, wellbred and secure of our species.
Kind regards,
The Patriot (of futile missions)
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Upgrades are a subscription in disguise. Its goona happen more and more. Soon the whole computer world is goona be run thru subscription based software. But, in the future they will call it "subscriptions" i stead of upgrades. They are gonna make us pay 40 - 50 bux a month to run a software just like cable TV. diferent tiers of srevice for higher prices along with price hikes every few months..
IE: The windows activation is the begginings of it all.
Already there are bizz models where you merely keep a stub of a program on yer machine. Then u must get online to operate it every time. I just left a data base program that is going that way. They plan on keeping your data in their severs. You will be trapped.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'm gonna agree with Karen on this one, too. I don't really have a choice, I'm gonna need a lawyer to explain to me just what in the heck Fran is talking about.
I can't believe I actually saw the word "albeit" on this bulletin board.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Perhaps ye are right and it's time to catapult this discussion. Knowest thou that when the "thread" becomes too long, 'tis time to start "sewing" the raveled sleeve of care up.
Nevertheless, this has been an interesting, healthy and engaging discussion and, just maybe, people (including myself) were informed, actually learned something and were stirred beyond a a "howdy-dooty" to express the themselves in a meaningful, consructive way. Perhaps, something was actually accomplished for the good of the whole.
I must remind myself that this is merely a discussion board, not really designed to plunge into the depths of conviction on a topic. We are friends of a feather sharing common ground and should keep things short, sweet and light. Right?
To know me, specifically, is to understand that I am modestly sucsessful at what I do and fairly well-off. One, therefore, may wonder why, in this instance, I balked about the cost of an upgrade.
As I attempted to convey in my previous post-- I never lose sight of the days when I struggled to work hard and earn a living... It's never gets too much easier, relatively speaking. I am also empathic to those who occupy those same fields today. Fear not, I have not become so "high on my hog" that I've forgotten or abandoned my roots and heritage as an aspiring, struggling artist and craftsman.
I'm still here on the outskirts of the woodlands keeping an eye out for those who wouldst prey upon our craft and good natures.
Now please forgive my rhetoric and poetic approach to a now sore subject. But to put it another way-- Often times, those among us who are, in fact, better off in our livlihoods than others as a result of birthright, luck, hard work, or marriage, sometimes find it easier to scuff-off cost of living and business increases better than others. I've seen it happen over and over again and someone has to assume the task or become a spokesman for the people's conscience. And that person has to be amply wise to know that there will never be unanimity on any topic. Thus, I respect all points of view no matter how slanted or to the point with courtesy and respect at the forefront. One needn't ponder or dig down too deep to understand that.
Sometimes someone has to "stop the buck" and to engage our human side. This topic surrounding Amiable is and was a constructive crossroad. Now let's see what happens. Call it bitching, call it whining, call it freedom of expression, call it constructive dialogue-- they're all part of the mix.
But be reminded, before I close, that so long as certain matters are continually "swept under the rug" and we're groomed to accept everything our neighbors choose to pass on to us and we they... I question the mindset of what we're forging. Perhaps a pyramid doomed to collapse when the tolerance factor becomes too steep for the base to support?
Frankly, I believe we need to temper ourselves with healthy, down and dirty discussion now and then before we can ascend to the next tier.
As for my "cry me a river" novel approach to certain subjects, well, that's just me... not all the time and to hear it put that way (which I liked :-) shows that there's more creativity and sharp wit down under the surface of our patrons and contributors here at Letterhead.
Now I'm not angry or put-off by anything that's transpired here. Nor do I consider the effort and discussion exhausted... but I am and will continue to be intent at every "crossroad" where some of all of us can benefit on the healthy exercise of a given topic.
Paying the price isn't always the answer...sometimes one must dig down deep in other areas of their being to find solutions. Hopefully, that needn't occur too often.
Now, peace be to ye all! And, perhaps, with my cleansed demeanour I'll now give Judy a call--or perhaps, if she's been enlightened as well, maybe she'll contact me before I she.
Kind regards,
The Patriot turned Seamstress
Madam DeFarge...if you will
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
All I can say is BLAH BLAH BLAH! Nothings gonna change! And you all know it! Past performance has made me pessimistic.....and things don't change that easily! S-A will give some complainer a free upgrade somewhere along the line, then......case closed. It's somewhat like everyone complaining about WalMart, but we all go there! Those who use Flexi will pay for upgrading, or THEY will fall behind! The Product you get will NEVER be un-flawed and you will NEVER be happy, and you say you'll never "GO THERE" again, but in all likelyhood you will because you MUST, to keep up with it all. Well....PHOOEY!!!!
[ December 03, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
Especially we cowboys and those of the worn spurs and dusty leathers, who graze the priaries only to discover the herd's elsewhere... in greener pastures, the land of milk and honey... built with others' money.
I do hope the "klan" has the opportunity to read back a few posts, though. Some good stuff there of the 'Blah Ilk'.
Your summary was the best thusfar and just what the vendors pray for to put we hounds abed or "akip", as the English say.
Never fear, though, the 'Mouse Police Never Sleep' and prowl the rye grass with focused eye, radar ear, silent advance and quick responce.
Why, I even think twas they who invented the 'pounce pattern'.
Windy roof top weather cock... tapping the vane.
I am-- The Seamstress
Madam Defarge (A Tale of Two Cities, I believe)
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Fran As a former NJ-ite, I'm sure I'm agreeing with you, even though I'm a bit thrown by your 17th(?) century dialogue(I'm jess an ol' signpainter)! In the midst of all that, I'm sure you're TOTALLY correct!
[ December 03, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
If there is a point to this post other than the one Bob made maybe someone could "cliff note it" and make it a sticky at the top of the forum because god knows Fran while you're apparently unhappy with Flexi products SO STOP USING THE *(%*&#&q#*&$q#(*&$ THINGS AND GIVE IT A REST ALREADY...or.......box it up,put it on EBAY,god knows its the worlds junkyard, and sell it to someone who'll buy it just cuz they think they got a deal on it. The only fictional revenge character you still haven't mentioned in this crap is the Count of Monte Cristo or maybe hes sleeping in the grass with the mouse police and just hasnt gotten here yet... that or you're trying out lines for a creative writing class...Maybe the easiest thing is for you to do id write the upgrade you want the way you want it to work for Flexi and sell it to em...then it will be perfect,you can keep your $650 or whatever it is. Every software sucks in someway and nothing does everything its supposed to do..you've obviously been in buisness long enuff to know that....live with that or write your own code.....What kills me here is you claim you spoke with half a dozen users.....my god what an industry sample....thats 6 people...6 whole people...at that low a number you can't be sure if its the software or they just can't read the directions sorry to burst your bubble. And no I dont use Flexi....but its rare to see a merchant of any type get involved here,and frankly with some of the bashfests and stupidity of logic that go along with some product attacks here,they all should rate just a bit higher in peoples books when they do respond....but now that one has spoken here about this,you feel its now their duty to contact you instead of you them when you're the one that started this in the first place,sorry wrong....pick up the phone and call em and maybe you'll get an answer or a solution and you wont spend the next 3 days here trying to convince people you're right and evil corporate america is wrong....you wanted a person response...seems to me you got one from them and in an open forum none the less...they could have easily contacted you away from here so take advantage of that instead of using it to see how many obscure theatrical and literary references you can toss in to make it look like you have more to say about the issue than you actually do. Sorry but I think the real issue here is that Flexi never did do 100% of what you thought it was going to do,but since you sold and promoted it you got it either dirt cheap or free,sang its praises,overlooked what didn't work conviently and then when that relationship went south,they expected full price for what you felt you were entitled to for the time you put in with em and now you're p***ed. Guess what thats life,been there done that more than once....you certainly dont have the market cornered on that so let it go you'll live longer. Other than that...read what Bob said about 12 times.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
These type of discussions are nothing new, in fact they were going on when I first stumbled on this BB in 95. I had just purchased my first computer and was about to buy a sign program. After reading the endless complaints about the dedicated sign programs and the lack of support and the continual screwings that came from all of them with the exception of Gerber, who, do to the "you won't need this guy anymore" advertisements back in the eighties, would never get a dime of my money, I was certain I didn't want a dedicated program. Then I read Dave Grundy and OP's posts about cutting directly from Corel. Those two guys saved me ton of money, not to mention a lot of aggravation. Thanks guys
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Well here is my two cents... I don't use Flexi...I have a Gerber with whom I maintain a love/hate relationship. I have a brain and somewhat creative hands, tools on which I can always rely, like in Pat's post. I have been getting a kick out of Fran's prose! He is a hoot! Love- JILL (...nobody cares what I think anyway!!!)
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Topic Closed
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could figure out price adjustments to absorb these costs.
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