posted
Jon and Roger, will quit posting your little lessons and listen to OP. There's a wealth of knowledge he is trying to teach us on what not to do.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Some very insightful stuff there, Jon, thanks. That's the kind of post that I love about this board. Best of luck in your new venture! Mike's point about relationships and Rapid's view of image are very important in my world-- if you present your image as first class, then you can command first class prices; and, if you learn to build relationships and 'read' your customers as you are speaking with them, over time you learn to hit that sweet spot on price on most of your quotes. Nothin makes me feel worse than knowing I left money on the table. I feel that way a lot less now than I did twenty years ago. (basic principles of salesmanship combined with repetition, er, years of experience)
Roger, I was in another world back in the days of those magical numbers, as I mentioned, it was the world of advertising and I happened to get lucky at a crucial point. That is a very political arena, with neverending deadlines from hell. drove me to distraction after a few years. I realized the same energy required to produce creative and art direct an ad or print piece is also necessary for good sign design. it's the lettering, I was always in it for the typography and when Gerber introduced the signmaker it rocked my world. I knew it like an epiphany the minute I first heard about it, I dropped my quills and I never looked back. enough about me.
I think anyone that adheres to generally intelligent business practices and has a year or three of hands on should expect 30-40% from a retail operation assuming a halfway decent location. Someone with at least 7-10yrs of doing anything would hopefully have learned how to cut the right corners to enhance that number a bit.
-------------------- Jay Nichols ALPHABET SOUP
~the large print giveth and the small print taketh away~ Posts: 176 | From: SW Florida | Registered: Mar 2002
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Tell ya what guys, if you want to boast about 10% real profit that's fine, and I'll be happy with my 30% profit margin doing less work.
To me, personally, $833/month or $10k/year isn't enough profit to grow a business, at least not at the rate I want to grow.. One plotter, a computer and new seats of software will completely drain your year's profit if you're only getting 10% of 100k. I know that's why people lease equipment, but I personally like knowing I actually own all my business assets... just my personal thang cause I like knowing if things go sour, I can sell off all my junk and pay the bills.
My business pays its own bills, it pays my personal bills (which I figure into business overhead), it pays for retirement funds (oh yes, I'm only 27 and you better believe I'm stashing it away), it pays for everything, then I add a personal salary on top of that, take care of the taxes and after all that I still have 30% going into the bank. I can produce these numbers because the ratio of my overhead to my sales is rock bottom - remember I have no leases to worry about, I own everything I use in my business. I work from home so all the recurring monthly bills are low. I don't fall into the trap that other people have of having low overhead so they pass the savings on to customers. I also live a pretty simplified life now, having already played the material object obsession game in the past so my personal income is modest, not excessive, yet enough to put some away for the future (like buying or building a house).
I am money-driven. I love creating, dont get me wrong, but first and foremost I have a living to make and dreams to achieve, and for me the shortest path there is making as much money with the least amount of work as possible (working smarter, not harder).
I like knowing if I have a slow month, or a big unforseen expense, or some other unexpected hiccup there's going to be some cashflow or other obtainable assets to smooth it out.
I don't want to be in the position of taking money from my personal account, taking food from my own mouth, or cutting my own salary, so the business can pay its bills. I prefer to operate at a higher profit margin to be sure and prevent that from ever happening again.. and it doesnt mean screwing customers or only doing the highest paying jobs, it simply means you make the most of each job, reduce your costs as much as possible, and maintain a reasonable workload that doesn't stress you out to the point you miss deadlines or alienate customers.
**Edit**: Oh yeah, I do a lot of R&D in my biz in developing new stuff and basically playin around with different materials, so higher profits help with the cashflow to pay for that stuff until the tax deductions kick in at the end of the year.
[ November 23, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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i guess you all is smarter then me....but i like being the dummy that i is.....your not talkin net profit you talkin reinvestment capitol back into your business...10-15% is ok for this...MY NET PROFIT is what i got left after i pay material, expenses of runnin the business. gross profit is want i make before expenses. i do simple money in money out bookkeeping not carlton sheets method.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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lol to OP...I see both sides! Simplicity has a beauty all it's own. High profile is cool too, but the net profits tend to be lower. Why? Because you advertise more and are more prone to being hit up for donations, because of their high visability.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3486 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well, according to Roger's post, a net profit of $12,000 for me wasn't too bad then! And I agree with OP...paint is always cheaper and much more FUN! (and with the time one takes plotting, weeding, masking, equal in time to vinyl, creates more trash, and is not good for my soul like painting is) love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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i make 5% profit. if it cost $100 i sell it for $500 5% works for me.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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net profit= sales-taxes-YOUR SALARY-expenses&materials Net profit is NOT what you can steal and jam in your pocket when the job is done and unfortunately i think most people here want to see it that way. They mean after you get paid for the job,then you pay the tax man,your supplier,your helper,your bills&rent,incidental expenses and some salary to yourself you should have some % left in the bank so that the buisness can survive another day and you can pay all those things next month when its slow instead of chewing fingernails and rushing thru the next job and not seeing a dime for it b/c it had to go solely to one of your bills. If you sell a $500 job,the materials cost you $50 you do not now have $450 to stuff in your pocket.....50 to material,your share is 120 since you spent 2hrs working on it at 60/hr,5 goes toward your phone bill,15 to gas and elec,10 for taxes,30 toward rent,30 to your employee and 10 for incidental operating expenses. That leaves you with $230..and no i have no idea what % of 500 230 is i just made it up....THE $230 IS YOUR NET PROFIT,IT'S WHAT YOU HAVE LEFT AFTER ALL YOUR BILLS ARE PAID. its what enables you to operate after every job and not be paralyzed in limbo waiting for the next $.80 to come in and allows you a cushion to be able to pay your bills and yourself next month when things are slow instead of shooting for a wing and a prayer,it also enables you to have money to buy/replace equipment,a new vehicle etc. If you pay close attention to that formula you'd be surprised how you can still be getting a salary/compensation all the time even though the buisness is technically not making a dime. As far as %'s....all depends on your sales numbers....10% of your sales may not be equal to 2% of someone elses.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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NET PROFIT- $15,000.00 (usually a fund to grow buss.)
If this is way off, show us the figures your doin?
Roger
Roger, that's exactly how I'm reading the numbers, and I'm stickin to my guns from my previous post. Then again I am not your average sign shop, I'm in a completely different market.
If you're producing work using methods you have down to a science, sure, those numbers are alright. If you're like me and are always getting into new things that require new materials, new tooling, new setup and new training it's nice having bigger numbers because there is a LOT of waste in R&D. It's just like every post here where someone wants to get into CNC Routing.. ya gotta have the money for the equipment but you gotta have an equal amount to spend on materials and training that are just part of the learning curve.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Hi all... been lurkin' for a long time here and this thread really caught my attention. I really appreciate everything that you all are saying. I know that for me... a lot of times I have to break my daily business down to my basic goals... What Jon posted is extremely valid... even though I hate acronyms and think that they're created by yuppies with MBA's to impress other yuppies with MBA's.
As for the original post of the 100k shop and breaking down goals as proposed in Jons post.... Here's how I see it...
Leave behind the net/gross debate for a minute... There are 2080 hours in a "normal" 40hr/week work year. In order to gross 100k in a year AND have a "normal" schedule/life... you have to bill out at an average of $50/hr. Now figure in administrative time to do your books, place orders, design, sales calls, travel, etc. When I first started, I was running my ass off looking at jobs, quoting, over-designing and couldn't figure out why I was barely breaking even for so much work. Then I realized that my actual production time in a 40 hour week was really only about 12 - 15 hours... I changed my ways. At only 15 hours a week actually producing... I would have to charge about $130/hr to make the 100k mark! Now what I'm trying to do is look at each individual job, cut out a lot of the grab-assing and produce 25 billable hours a week and average $65/hr doing it (that'll put me somewhere in the mid $80k/yr range). I'll simplify a design, upsell a customer, let the answering machine screen my calls... whatever it takes to bust ass and become more efficient without sacraficing quality. One of the things I like to tell customers... "You can have it good, fast or cheap... pick two 'cuz you can't have all three"
I've been doing signwork full-time for a year and a half now... (been in design field for 18 years)...business has grown most every month and I'm on track for just under a $60k gross year in my first full year. Break down your hours and look at your money... I'll never understand how anyone can cry that they work 80 hours a week and can't make any money. You're either not working smart enough or you're living above your means.
I'm not an MBA or a "yuppie"...but I do like acronyms if they serve a useful purpose! SWOT is a useful abbreviation and SMART is "sticky" (hard to forget).
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I didn't mean to come across like I was calling you a yuppie or being derogatory in any way. I don't think you took it that way either. After learning to gild and paint when I was 16 I ended up at an art school... then ad agencies and corporate design departments then finally my own agency. At the ripe age of 29 I was billing myself out at $125/hr and was being flown all over to give seminars on unser interaction and small business web integration. I had 3 employees and my agency was knocking down a modest 4k to 5k per week... all out of the comfort of my basement! A divorce later and it was all gone... Now I get to do something for myself that I think is fun!
Enough of that... I got to thinking some more about this and how my experiences guide my actions. The first and biggest mistake I see a lot of one man shops make is that they don't consider themselves their greatest asset. If you had employees, you would carefully plan out their days until you had formed succesful daily habits with them that would capitalize their time into profit... it's hard to think of yourself as your only employee... but you have to coach yourself and develop the succesful habits that will form your business. I appreciate the post about "pigeon holing" yourself into being seen as a race-car lettering guru... once you broke that habit/image... your profits increased. We have to treat ourselves like our own employees, capitalize on our time and at the same time be the best boss we've ever worked for.
quote: If you had employees, you would carefully plan out their days until you had formed succesful daily habits with them that would capitalize their time into profit... it's hard to think of yourself as your only employee... but you have to coach yourself and develop the succesful habits that will form your business.
WOW! That speaks to me like it is the best advice I've heard yet about improving my profitability! I waste a lot of time & rationalize that I work so much, I need to waste some time like a "break" In reality, I would much rather lump all those "breaks" together & spend them at the beach or at home with my wife... but I've got into this habit of being the hard-working shop ownwer that rewards himself with the luxery of wasting time at the office when I can sneak some free time in between committments. On the other hand, when I have a little help from someone... I bend over backwards to maximize their time even though I can get 3 or 4 times as much done with my time.
Thank You for an excellent observation, worded just right to get through my justification & rationalization filters.
posted
this is a great post...and doug, that was a great quote..too bad i suck at delegating. i think alot of us make the same mistake and rationalize the same things. spending too much time stressing over jobs, bending over backwards to meet someone elses "no notice" deadline. my phone has only rung about 12 times today and 5 were fellow letterheads...i love those days! it's the 30+ phone call days...mostly customers asking way too much from me when i'm in the middle of painting, routing, cutting/weeding vinyl or designing. that's when i stress and don't like it....and yes i'm much better at screening my calls..gotta love caller id. i still don't think i could do 100k by myself, unless i fell into some easy routing or edge jobs that were repeat. until then i'll keep plugging away...
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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From what I see here, most of us really don't have a business, we just created a full time job for ourselves. That may be fine for some of us, but, if you want to take a vacation or retire and not worry about money, it's time to start listening to the great advise offered here. Here's some rhetorical questions... Are you collecting a regular paycheck? Do you work holidays or weekends to make ends meet? Do you get paid vacations? Does the company pay for your health and/or life insurance? Do you have an IRA? If you're not at work, does the business still function without you? After all the bills are paid at the end of the month, is there any money left over in the checking account (profit)? If you want to retire, will there be any value in the business in order to sell it? I ask these questions because I feel that this is what running a business is all about. I'll admit, I work for someone else and the steady paycheck is very comforting. However, like others have mentioned, it's not guaranteed. That's why we are asking these same questions and more here. We are making changes to make sure the business succeeds with or without us. If you're going to invest your time & effort into your business, you might as well do it right.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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This is a great post! I don't think anyone has mentioned Chip Carter's book- Make Your Sign Business Successful. I know this has been hashed over before- but if you cannot get 25 good ideas from this $25 book- you are not able to read! Just one great idea that I got from the book is- Take a few minutes to organize one thing every day- at the end of a month, it is incredible how much you will have accomplished. Gene
If your business dies for a month, maybe two, is there enough money to carry all the expenses through the slump, without cutting your own salary?
After you reinvest your profits (or venture capital) back into the business by learning new skills or buying new equipment, is there still some money left over?
I'm no MBA either but it doesn't take one to identify a losing proposition. Put all your numbers onto paper so you can see it in writing. You own the business so don't let the business own you, and the mentality that you're OK giving up income because you don't have to work for anyone else, is not OK. You start your own business to make money for yourself, so get to it.
Minimize costs, maximize profits.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I think you eluded to the real point of many of these great posts...
NET INCOME
That is the amount of money that you have left after all is said and done at the end of the week...your paycheck. It's probably not too hard to figure out how much NET INCOME you make, and it is why we are in business in the first place. Running the business has costs and reinvestments, but unless you have some money left past that, you're working for the business, not yourself.
Rapid
[ November 26, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Right here and now, after fully reading and absorbing these posts, I really want to thank everyone adding to this post. I have been on my way to starting something myself, and after reading these posts, it has really help clarify a few things, and understand what makes a successfull business.
Thanks!
-------------------- Jeff Green Taylor Signs jeff92@shaw.ca Posts: 113 | From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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No I think he is referring to NET PROFIT on top of net income. That elusive concept that more simplified bookkeeping (like OP's and mine & many others)disregards.
I think there is a wealth of good business advice here, & that concept is near the top of the list, however I also think if someone doesn't have a set salary, & just takes whatever money is not needed to cover overhead that could be fine too.
Like Brian said, a lot of us just created a job for ourselves, & are not really stepping into the true role of business owner. I know my design & sign production skills will continue to grow, & I challenge myself to aquire better business skills as well, over time, but I'm also very happy with my current "job".
I had the background & training pointing me in a direction of "sign planning" & environmental graphic design along the lines of the type of work Rick Chavez posts about, but I found myself on a small island where there is little to no demand for that type of work & ended up building up a quicky sticky type of business for myself.
I guess I'm attempting to make the point that having had "jobs" doing this type of work on someone elses clock (& rules)& for meager pay, owning my own business (job) is over 1000 times more rewarding & at least 10 times more profitable, & when I started it I had only one tenth the knowledge of the sign craft I have today (thanks to mostly Letterville)& no knowledge of business.
Over the years I've seen posts critiquing newbies for taking jobs they didn't already know how to do, or for having shops that didn't produce signage on the grander end of the scale. Now posts that may be just encouragement to raise the level of business sense, but in some ways seem again like a critique of those already jumping in and doing something before possesing the advanced experiences of a seasoned veteran.
I mentioned the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" The same author wrote another book that teaches the same concept of a business owner being able to walk away from the business & still make money. Thats all fine & dandy, but like many of the posts on this thread, making money is not the only factor. We all have to do something with our time & hopefully with our talents. The satisfaction of having a skill & a passion for a craft that we also get paid for, (enough to pay the bills)is an acomplishment in itself.
I'm all for building wealth & saving for retirement, but by no means do all other "jobs" offer that, so if mine doesn't yet... well I will hope to see that facet of the self employed experience grow alongside my design & production skills.
posted
Doug I think alotta people feel it's criticism on posts like this for the same reason they get a mental block on the net profit/income issue....all those things assume you're paying yourself regularly along the way.....although you know as well as i do, to the overwhelming majority of people here if they sell a $500 job,thats what they made. Sure,they paid the supplier $50 for what they needed when they were picking it up because they had no choice but the other $450 gets pocketed until the next job comes in and then when rent,ins,etc comes along its a big surprise and it gets to be a tougher and tougher nut to crack as time goes on and its a very hard habit to break....face it you feel you did it,so you're entitled to it all,it's hard to seperate that feeling from billable hours. If you're working it as part time or a second income b/c you have a working spouse you can prob get away with it,but if it's your primary source of income its a huge mistake. Combine that with the fact that more often than not here we judge who we think is successful or not by how a job looks,how many magazines they've been in and how much we want to do the same kind of work...none of which is any kind of guarantee you're gonna be able to pay your bills by following step. Thats not condeming or criticizing anyone,its just stating facts,its not a secret that most people here and in professions like this would much rather focus on the creative side than the buisness side,which unfortunately becomes the most impt side after you've been in buisness more than 3wks and there comes a point where you have to make a choice to do so despite the willingness to believe and listen to people blow smoke here about what it is they say they do. I know its also sacrilege to mention but you'll get far more as a small buisness owner out of the series of Guerilla Marketing books than you ever will from the make 100k/year book,the ideas are extremely easy to implicate and work very well.
heres the off topic part: Doug..if you read any of the Rich Dad series check this link out http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html i read 3-4 of em but after coming across this guy in a real estate investment newsletter and seeing a couple of articles on the guy in Forbes,the wall st journal and investors buisness daily this kinda puts a diff spin on him,esp since i found out he willingly lied about his service record.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Actually I haven't eluded to anything that wasn't already mentioned in this thread, just debating what's considered an acceptible profit margin.
If someone says "My shop has 100k in sales every year and my profits are 10%/$10,000." to me it means $90,000 of that goes flyin' out the window to overhead, their own salary, employee salaries, the tax man, etc etc.. which is $7500 per month. They get to keep $833/month.
Then November and December roll around and sales drop like a rock because nobody is buying signs with the holidays, and sales wont pick up til February when everyone else recovers from putting themselves into debt.. you still have $7500 in costs to cover each month. Hypothetically, let's say your sales for November, December and January are 50% of normal - that's $12,500 in sales during a time period when your costs are $22,500. Remember a one man shop has no employees to cut loose.
You are $10,000 short in covering your costs for those 3 months.. OOPS! Incidentally, that's a whole year's profit.
What to do? Do you give up a year's profit in order to keep the business open? Hmm, that would mean you'd have to have the previous year's profits still in the bank which means if you spent it on new equipment you're sunk. Well, if you're paying yourself a salary of $50,000, you could just give up your salary for a few months and solve the problem... 'cept that your family would like to eat, and not have to use candles for light and heat. Maybe you could drain your personal savings for the sake of keeping the business open? Hmm.. not a good idea and the wife would not like that.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Gavin, I enjoyed checking out that link. I would probably be very interested in reading some of the Guerilla Marketing books. (Is John T. Reed the author of those books?)
I've often said, when referencing RDPD in conversation, that if I had seen his infomercials before reading his book, I would never have read his book at all. One quote I liked from your link was this one, where he is critiquing the folks that credit RDPD with, at the very least, making them think about their finances. (like me)
quote: I think these “made me think about finances” comments are inarticulate at best and dishonest at worst. What is really going on is a lot of people are schlepping along doing a half-ass job of managing the financial aspects of their lives. Rich Dad Poor Dad slaps them up side the head and tells them to clean up their acts. That’s good, but the book goes on to deliver a pack of lies that make getting rich seem much easier than it really is and make education sound much less valuable than it really is. Basically, people want to get rich quick without effort. Kiyosaki is just the latest in a long line of con men who pander to that naive longing.
I happened to need a slap upside the head, & since the book was given to me by my daughter, I felt somewhat obligated to at least give at a look. I got a beneficial "slap" & any praise I give the book is due to getting a slap I needed. I could have gotten it many places, including here, but that happened to be where I got one noteworthy slap that I feel has encouraged me to clean up my act. I would still completely agree that "Kiyosaki is just the latest in a long line of con men who pander to that naive longing" (of the get-rich-quick crowd)
If I want to check out one of those Guerilla Marketing books, which one do you suggest for starters?
quote:Originally posted by jimmy chatham: i make 5% profit. if it cost $100 i sell it for $500 5% works for me.
except thats actually 500% profit...
5% would mean it costs you $100 and you sell it for $105.
-------------------- -------------------- Dave Cox C2 Media Services (Formerly That Sign Guy) dave@c2mediaservices.com -------------------- Full Color Printing Posts: 295 | From: Sacramento CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Reed didn't write any of those books,from what i understand he was a baseball coach and real estate agent that lost a good deal of his shirt trying out the no money down type guys methods that became all the rage,and when he questioned a few as to how much property they acquired with the methods they were selling he couldnt find one that actually was successful doing it then he kinda went on a mission to disprove all their BS. The guy who wrote all the Guerilla Marketing books is Jay Levinson,I would start with the first one i guess, i read guerilla marketing and mastering guerilla marketing b4 i read any of the others,you could even hit a book store and flip thru to see which one intersted you beyond the first one.
Kiyosaki...like i said i read 3 or 4 mostly b/c they were quick reads and got disappointed when i realized he double talks alot and just really lends his name to the series after the first book. I think he does deserve credit for getting alotta people to think about the issue who otherwise wouldnt but he cant ever seem to agree with himself.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Guerilla Marketing (mostly) and Ogilvie on Advertising did more for me than any other books on the subject. I still can't remember who I lent them to. Will have to go & but Levinson's one again! I still believe you then have to add your own interpretation or twist to everything after that- that's important. Kiyosaki's first two books mentioned above I enjoyed as story books, but my comments would only replicate others comments. I didn't mind his 'Do you have to go to school to be rich & happy' that I was given years before RDPD came on the scene.
quote: One of the keys to success in business is holding your costs down and getting good value for every dollar spent
best wishes
& I'm a looOOoongish way off 100k!
[ November 26, 2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Hm lots of interesting stufff here. Ive read Gurilla marketing and gurilla marketing attck. really good stuffs in there, Also rad jay abraham and robert middleton and richard spring. All great marketing studies.
Net Worth, Net income and net profit
Net Income means how much you got in yer wallet at the end of the week.
NetWorth is taking a few of them dollars outa yer wallet and puttin them into yer dresser and keepin it there.
Net profit could be the same as what you put into da dresser, But it really means how much did you make after materials for that job.
All different terminology.
an ol' Cajun term.... If you aint puttin a few of dem wallet dollars into da dresser . then you aint doin nutin.. If u can tput a few 'o dem wallet dollars into da dresser then you might as well go fish.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I work 5 1/2 days a week, 10-12 hours by choice so that I can set a pace that is not a killer. In memory of Jack Rumph who died in June, making a profit is a matter of knowing how to operate the business side of your business. We top out at close to 2, one side or the other each year and will do so this year as well. That with no production employees but two support staff. I have been working smart always and can enjoy the business without the typical money woes. My Mom had been a comptroller and infused our business with fiscal awareness, a tradition that Judi continues. If you have taken Judi's seminar, you know our system which is time tested.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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I read an interesting book: The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. It mentioned that if you do not control your business, you don't own a business, you own a job. I highly reccomend that book for any shop owner who used to work for someone else, and decided to go on their own.
[ November 28, 2003, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3486 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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How's that for a coinkydink Rick? Just bought the E-Myth Revisited today.
A relevant passage right from the start refers to successful business people always questioning whether they know enough and strive to know more. The unsuccessful are always defending what they know and don't want to look farther.
Just in this thread alone there are few people here that reflect both ways of thinking.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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A young businessman here mentioned the E Myth book to me........I'll check it out.
I'd be the first to admitt that I own a job more than a business.
I got into this business by default. The fellow I started working for packed his bags after me being there only 5 months (neither of us new anything about this business). I saw an opportunity, I didn't have much choice, starting a business was like creating a job....that was just over five year ago.
With what I know now..........I could be moving my job closer to a business.
Thanks Folks
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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