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I'm seriously looking at moving into the digital print/inkjet world. My business is growing and there seems to be more of a demand for printed graphics in this market. I also want to learn to design in the Raster world as well as the vector. Vinyl is great but it has its limitations.
Any advise on where I should start......hardware/software?
I want something versitile that would print on a multitude of mediums/substrates.
size.........24-36inch
bugdet.......$12000,-$20000 (Canadian)
Thanks
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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What kind of signs do you want to do with it? 12-20k sounds like a lot of money, but if you plan on doing full bus wraps, your gonna need a lot more than that. One thing is look at subbing some of it out, get a feel for the market, then you will know what machine will work for you.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Hiya John, If you want to do it right the first time, you'll probably have to double your budget - at least. First, you need a clean, climate controled area to work in. Temperature & humidity changes greatly effect the way the ink & media handles. Our primary focus is tradeshow displays and here's what we have: 2 Encad printers. An old pro 36 set up with pigmented inks and a Pro700 60" set up with dye inks. We print using Onyx Postershop 5.0 RIP software. The PC driving the Printers & software is an older Dell work station with a Xeon processor which is networked to our server. All this equipment is out of date by today's standards. We also own a 63" laminator, 110" trimmer, 8-12' tables, material storage racks, etc. I just received a quote for a 60" HP 5500 and all the bells & whistles that go along with it - New PC print server, RIP software, color management software & hardware, 2 days of set up & on-site training and a 3 year warranty, etc. for about $26,000. There are more affordable solutions available and you may already have a lot of what you need so shop wisely.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have cut and pasted my reply to another post on this board - I would suggest you look at the whole thread "share your knoledge - please help out a new guy"
**************************************** Digital printing is very different to general signmaking. It's a far wider and less overtraded market and you can make a lot of money at it , if you do it well. Your skills as a desinger will come in very handy - and an inkjet solvent type printer like a Roland Versacam will enable you to design and print what you like , there is little the machine cant print , and little it can't print on , it die cuts the prints and is a 30" cutter - the cost is around $13k with a decent RIP etc. Running costs for inks are around $8-10 per sq meter or under $1 per sq ft. There are many avenues open to you the digital print field You can print on most papers , so posters , photos , point of sale stuff ,in store display certificates , wall papers etc can be done with ease and at very high resolution. You can print and cut self adhesive stuff - Whatever anyone with a vinyl cutter can do , so can you but you can also print on it You can do all maner of general signage , decals and short run stickers , product labels , window and vehicle graphics , see thru window films, lexan , metallic foils, self adhesive papers , etc etc - thats a huge market in itself. Then you can print on certian fabrics - lots of applications there. Banners on banner material , plans , id cards etc are all possible - you can even print on rigid substrates like thin abs and styrene. In all likelyhood you may be doing work for your competiion!!!! If you think creatively , there are huge markets , even in a town of 75 000. Im not aligned to Roland at all , so Im speaking from a user point of view. I own the bigger brother to the Versacam , the Soljet - which works exeptionally but costs $30k. Leasing a machine like the Versacam cannot be more than $450 a month over 3 years , IE $22 per day (assuming 20 work days a month) Selling price for a decent digital print is about $3-4 per sq ft (You prolly can get a lot more in a small town - compare that to the $10 or so COST for a PC thermal printer !!!), and your consumable costs will about $1 or so , so you can make $2-3 gross per sq ft , you need to print 11 sq ft a day to break even , and that is really mickey mouse iro what you CAN print. you should be able to print at least 150 sq ft per day without breaking into a sweat. I would take the plunge and get a machine like that , an expensive item doing nothing is is a mighty strong incentive to find lots of work for it. There is a learning curve and you will waste some media and will need a laminator at some stage. You need to put together a stunning portfolio on various media and you need to market yourself. Bank on just breaking even for the first 3 months and make sure you have a decent amount of working capital for rolls of conumables. you will obtain and retain customers if your work is excellent quality , you deliver on time and your price is reasonable - most customers want quality and service and price is generally a secondary (but important) concern. Before you actually jump in , do some market research as to the size of the market , what machinery you competitors have , what thier prices are etc. Dont try undercut radically - you will lose money that way. You need to learn a little or a lot about printing in general , colour modes etc etc - most of these topics are well covered on the internet - no one can teach "design" - either you have it or you don't - if it looks right and reads right , it is right. Get the fastest computer you can , most modern computers will run anything - you must have worked on a design package on a puter - use whatever you know best - just about any package will output to the printer - Corel , Photoshop or Adobe illustrator and freehand are the poular ones. I don't think you can start up with less than $20-25k if you want to do it right - never underestimate this figure - if you run into cash flow problems , it can break you easily.
-------------------- Rodney Gold Toker Bros Posts: 57 | From: South Africa | Registered: Aug 2003
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Do not, under any circumstances, under-estimate the learning curve required to go from cut vinyl (vector) production to ink jet (raster).
We made the change in 1999, and I think it cost closer to $100,000 than $30,000, after factoring in the wasted materials, the training costs, the unproductive employee costs,the upgrades to many other systems such as servers, archiving setups, tape backups, scanners, etc, etc, etc.
Color management, software that you are probably not currently familiar with, such as Quark Xpress, certainly Photoshop. Good RIP software. And all the things mentioned in the previous post are required to make the change.
That being said, it is important to make the transition before your business becomnes marginalized. Raster images are simply too common in todays graphics market to ignore.
So make sure you start with a good solid supplier to partner with and help you through, and consider equipment with an easier learning curve for Signmakers, such as the Gerber Edge or Jetster.
They may not be the very best or cheapest systems out there, but they do know how to work with sign people to help them through.
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Now I'll offer you mine, you decide if its good or not,
Just break in to the market by first finding a great sub for you work, learn the ins and outs of color and file settings before you invest in machines and materials that will consume your working capital and burden you with pitfalls and HUGE learning curves that will cost you money just to " play" I have seen too many people want to do these things in house, and if it was 3 years ago I'd say go for it but so many shops are buying machines today and the market is getting exptremely competitive.
If you do not have the business yet, go out and get it, set up a reliable wholesaler like gregory or a local shop and sell it untill you have such a great business with it that you cannot afford but to purchase your own equipment.
Then let your wholesaler worry about learning curves, uprgrades and machinery obscelesance.
Just my opinion.
[ November 15, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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It is SO much cheaper to outsource the work and mark it up than invest in the equipment, training and other means to produce in-house!
Even HUGE companies with almost unlimited capital like GM, FORD, Nike and Microsoft outsource their work.
Why shouldn't small companies do the same?
It might be less convenient to depend upon someone else especially when schedules on a job are tight to begin with, but what happens when your machine decides to take a break while you have jobs lined up? If you do the work in-house you're screwed.. if you outsource it through a wholesaler like Gregory, it's no problem because they have back-up systems, not to mention several different machines that can pick up the slack.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I have more than often acted in haste and purchased stuff with out doing my homework.
Finding good and reliable suppliers is often difficult(I'm talking more finished product than materials). The local sign shops here (only 2 others beside me) are not that reliable. They are strickly 9-5 weekdays only. They don't seem to have the same vested interest as me. They are just employees working for other people... and thats where the diffence is.
I do have some good reliable people in the south..........but they are all 1000 miles away. If I'm in a crunch........they can't help me.
This is partly why I want to start doing this kind of work myself.........I'm the most reliable person I know........and so are you.
I do agree with the approach many of you have stated.
There are a few things I need to understand better before I invest. I think I'll invest my time first.
Thanks again
[ November 16, 2003, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: John Martin Robson ]
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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I had the same problem... Here is what I ended up doing. I bought a Encad VinylJet 36', not the best on the market, but for $11,000, I could deal. That will do anything from banners, to partial wraps on smaller veichles (Box Trucks, Pick-Ups, Etc.). If I need anything bigger (full Wrap, etc.) I call Gregory (or whoever). I do not how do the the "Quote" thing, but someone said that There is a learning curve from Vector to Rater, they are aboustley right! I had for quite a bit before I would even sell to my customers. Good luck.
-------------------- Devin Fahie Sebago Signworks Rt. 302, Raymond, Maine 207-655-6622 devin@sebagosignworks.com Posts: 96 | From: Raymond, Maine | Registered: Jun 2003
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