Well, this is probably a question that has been asked, although going through search I could not find anything on frog juice, just other clears and hardners.
Anyhow, my problem is that I painted a border on a sign yesterday with one shot paint. Then this afternoon, I sprayed frog juice mixed with a little 1 shot hardner over top. My 1 shot paint lifted and bubbled. I've only used frog juice for minor things, plus this was my first time using a spray gun....so the problem could be one of three things I think. a) Should not have mixed the hardner with frog juice? b) I sprayed too thick c) 1 shot was not dry enought (16 hours dry) Or....I just don't know what the hell I'm doing! lol
------------------ Brenda Beaupit Classic Graphics Kemptville, Ont CANADA
Posts: 346 | From: Stittsville, ON | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Brenda the prob is the first 3......FJ is diesigned to cure over a 30 day period....adding hardener to that will cause it to kick off way faster and aggressively bite into the one shot and lift it..alsolaying it on too thick wont allow tail end solvents to evaporate from the clear or the one shot and also cause the prob...in the future add some hardener to the one shot instead.....selling auto paint i never recommend clearing over one shot with a catalyzed clear...frog juice or the new one shot clear does work fine though...uncatalyzed that is
------------------ Gavin Chachere aka Zeeman Miller Supply Co./Ozone Signs & Grafix New Orleans La. www.millersupply.net www.ozonegrafix.com
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
All of Gavins answers were clearly correct. And my view would be that the hardener should have been used only in the 1Shot using little of reducer as well. In order for sign enamels to cure the reducer has to have time to evaporate even though the hardener may be used. Spraying a heavy coat is a no-no in whatever the situation and is best to give it a couple light coats. Though 16 hours may be enough cure time for some projects, warmth plays a major part.....
posted
Yes the hardner is made for the One-shot product and there is still a standing time for it to cure... then the clear or frog juice applied and stand for some time frame as well.. You could have use the One-Shot uv clear as a finish. The old saying "Have you ever sat there and watched wet paint dry!"
Raven/2001
------------------ Raven/2000 Airbrushed by Raven Lower sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Brenda,I've been clearing over One Shot for twenty years and have seen ALL the problems.
I've learned the following about this process.
1. The drying time for the One Shot is not critical. I have cleared over at all stages of dry from wet, through tacky, dry for a day, week etc. In the beginning guys used to say you had to let it dry for a week or two.
2. Adding hardner to One Shot is not necessary, it won't hurt, but it won't guarantee against failure. This trick has been passed around forever too, but it really isn't necessary.
3. Frog Juice is a lot like the urethanes from the early eighties, it's quite unpredictable. I treied it and had it bite me a few times and went back to the automotive stuff. The automotive clears of the last ten yeras are much more forgiving. I haven't seen a problem in years.
4. The main key to a succesful clear coating is in the application of the clear. Two mist coats with ample dry time in between followed up by wetter ( not flood ) coats until the proper gloss is obtained. Flooding the clear on heavy at any time WILL burn the One Shot.
I don't spray clear any more as I leave it to the guys with the proper equipment. My son turns out about three or four custom painted helmets a week. I usually do the lettering in One Shot. He takes them to a painter at a body shop who clears them when doing a car ( charges him $20, a real bargain). There hasn't been a problem in three years.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
MY experience with hardener has been only to use it in some older paint such as some of the maroon and blues that wouldnt dry normally. Still you must be very careful because hardener makes the paint more brittle and much less durable.
Never used Frogjuice but the above advise certainly sounds right to me.
posted
Actually Sarah the hardener is made up of isocyinates and resins which make the paint able to flex. It may get hard but not brittle and therefore more durable....
posted
I never used the one shot hardener, must be different. I had the purpleish stuff. I dont think one shot had a hardener back when i was painting.
posted
Joey is right on. There are some clarificaitons that I feel should be emphasized for future reference. The hardener is and ENAMEL hardener and as the directions state is for use in alkyd enamels. The clears, FrogJuice or OneShot UV are acrylics. The exotherm reaction in an acrylic will keep it from curing completely and can cause damage to the under surface such as discoloration. One must be careful to use compatable products as adding the wrong ingedient can cause more damage than is repairable. A hardener does not necessarily make the finish brittle but is added to enhance the molecular binding in the resin so that is it more resistant to lifting by susequent coats and to give the finish better gloss hold-out to resist marring and at the end of the cure time, resist adhesion of additional coats. The ultimate form in two component urethanes becomes grafiti resistant after the 30 dya cure period but will remain flexible enough for a steel storage tank to expand upwards to 30 percent without cracking the paint finish. Also, the hardener, contrary to popular belief, does not aid much in adhesion as that is a factor for the paint resin itself. Also, Sarah, the purple stuff you mentioned is cobalt dryer. Cobalt, Japan and lead dryers are additives that assist in the oxyginated cure process for single component enamels and have nothing to do with the chemical cure process developed by a hardener.
------------------ Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio Greeley, Colorado, USA kent@smithsignstudio.com
Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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